Jennifer Rothschild Show: Developing Emotional Endurance with Leslie M. Bosserman

**NOTE: This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors, misspellings, or mistranslated words.**

Leslie M. Bosserman: Whatever that circumstance is, feeling a little bit of that emotional friction, that stress, that tension actually fuels our performance and our ability to become better until it tips us over a point where we kind of cascade down and cannot emotionally recover.

So one of the skills that I teach in emotional endurance is how to expand your inner capacity to handle what's hard, to use your stress to your advantage, And actually limit the stress that's not helpful.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, hey, hey, welcome to The Jennifer Rothschild Show. This is Jennifer. I'm so glad you're here.

You've gathered with me because this is where thoughtful people come to grow. And today, my friend, it is all about emotional endurance. And today, my guest, Leslie Bosserman, is going to share with you the mindset and the skills that you need to face the hard things.

Coming out stronger, wiser, and more grounded. Doesn't that sound good? Now, here's the thing.

She's using psychology and scripture. She has developed this framework for building resilience. Oh, you are about to get practical tools to help you develop your emotional muscles.

I need that. You need that. So, I'm really glad you're here.

I hope you've had a good week. It's been a really great week for me. You probably already have figured out, 'cause I've put a little social media out, I have been in Greece and Turkey and having a wonderful time, learning so much, and just now getting a little jet lag as I'm ending.

But anyway, that's why I need a little endurance today, of the real kind. But I always need emotional endurance. And let's be honest, of course we do.

You got your stuff. I got my stuff. We all got our stuff.

Many of you know that I'm blind. So just the ordinary things in life take a lot of endurance. And it's not just the physicality of doing the hard things, y'all.

It's the emotional mindset that tells us we can do it and we're not gonna quit. And on those hard days for me, when I think I just can't do another thing, you know what I tell myself? Jennifer, You have agency.

You can quit. You can quit whenever you want, but don't quit today. Quit tomorrow.

And it's amazing how if I just give myself a little time and choose to endure a little longer, and I keep putting off quitting another day, I never quit. So maybe that's something you can think about as you begin to listen to Leslie. Now, she's a new friend.

She founded Lead with Intention, where she coaches and trains people on the science of emotional Emotional Endurance. And that's the book that we're going to talk about today, Emotional Endurance. She happens to be from Northern California, and she's a mom of 3 little people.

Talk about needing a little endurance. So let's grow together. Here we go.

[INTERVIEW BEGINS]

All right, Leslie, your book title caught me, Emotional Endurance, because I, I just was so curious about the title because it's also this invitation, because I'm like, yes, I want that.

And then the more I thought about it, I thought, well, what exactly is it? Okay, so I want us to start with that. What is emotional endurance, and is it different from resilience?

Are they the same things? So let's start with an understanding of what emotional endurance is.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Absolutely. So this is a question I get a lot, and it's one I actually had to sit with and pray with, because when I When I started teaching and training and coaching on the science of emotional endurance about 15 years ago, there's so many synergistic qualities that resilience plays into. So the framework for emotional endurance includes resilience, but it doesn't stop there.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

Leslie M. Bosserman: It can kind of start there, it extends it. And so when I took this meta construct of developing your emotional endurance, so throughout your whole life, we define it as a dynamic inner capacity to grow and overcome hard things. There's a much more succinct definition in the book.

But if you think about inside your body and your life, you have so much capacity to grow, overcome, change, persevere. You are not stuck in your circumstances. You are not defined by your trauma.

And all those things matter. So when we practice emotional endurance, there are skills that we can learn fueled by the faith and the truth in the Bible that will allow us to grow this inner capacity throughout our life. Resilience is one part of that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, this is really interesting to me. And so our audience are faith-based. These are Christian people who are listening. So talk to us why this emotional endurance, and not just resilience, not just stopping at resilience, why does that matter when it comes to our faith?

Leslie M. Bosserman: Oh, so good. So I actually started writing this book for a more mainstream audience. And I was praying over it, because I do coaching and training and speaking for a number of different organizations as an entrepreneur.

And God And the Lord just knocked on my heart and said, this is my message, and it's going to be used to help believers and also those who might have drifted or fallen away from faith to come back with a level of commitment. And when I think about emotional endurance as a practice, anyone can practice it. You don't have to be a believer to practice it.

And we were intentionally designed by our Creator to embody it and to continue living it. And so the spiritual purpose and our eternal hope is so fueled into everything I believe and everything I wrote about. And if without that kind of taproot in the whole tree of emotional endurance, or the plant of emotional endurance, it's hard to grow beyond that. And it's all about growth.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, and, and I love that because I'm all about growth. So, that's part of the reason I was so attracted to this. So, as I'm thinking about Emotional endurance.

Okay, then here's kind of where I, I pause, because how can somebody, Leslie, grow in emotional endurance if they're not emotionally aware? And so then how do you become emotionally aware?

Leslie M. Bosserman: So I'll just put a caveat here. My book is only 208 pages. I'll cover everything that you'll need to know about this topic.

And There are so many experts on emotional self-awareness. That's a concept I absolutely bring into the intro and the first principle. So it might help to just briefly go over the framework for emotional endurance.

So yeah, let's do that. Yeah, I look at it as 6 core principles. So principle 1 is called fortitude to fail. Two is resilience to rise. Three is hope to heal. Four is courage to change. Five is energy to engage. And 6 is purpose to persevere.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hmm.

Leslie M. Bosserman: So with those 6 principles, I introduce 3 skills per principle. So 18 skills total that teach you how to practice this. So it's super practical, like, and you don't have to have any level of expertise.

There's no starting line for practicing emotional endurance except exactly where you are right now. No qualification to begin except a willingness to learn. And so, in that first principle, going back to your question, I focus a lot on understanding emotional self-awareness, so your feelings aren't continually hijacking your thoughts and your behaviors and your habits that turn into your character.

So I create a framework for how God designed us to be emotionally feeling beings, and how he also told us to take every thought captive, right? And so when we tie in scripture with science, It just proves the Bible is truer than ever. And so what I love about how this book has come about, because writing and editing is a whole process in itself.

I originally had submitted something that was probably twice as long. And so you're getting the best of the best, we'll just say.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good.

Leslie M. Bosserman: I also am a super busy mom of 3 young kids and entrepreneur. So I knew from an audience perspective, whether whatever stage of life you're in, whether you're a grandma, taking care of all your grandkids and just trying to find a minute to yourself, or you're also a busy parent or someone who is doing 2 jobs, being able to have something that you can pick up and read for 3 to 5 minutes and gain something from that you can then put into action is super important to me. So you don't have to read it in order. That's the other kind of secret I tell people.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's helpful.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Yeah, you can pick it up and, and get something from it, but really understanding who you were designed to be in the eyes of our Creator, as someone with emotions, and that just because you're feeling something doesn't mean it defines you fully. I say that emotions are— they're messengers, not marching orders.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

Leslie M. Bosserman: And so, they teach us things about ourselves, but we don't have to follow them like a sergeant in an army. We can figure out what to do with them to actually fuel our resilience and our perseverance.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's so good. And they do feel like they are the general in our life giving us marching orders because they're so powerful. And so that's really a good distinction to make.

And I love that too, Leslie. What a warm invitation. You're saying you don't have to have a full emotional awareness to start.

And I think the beauty is you will grow. Sometimes we act our ways into feelings. Sometimes we feel our ways into action. I know it can happen either way.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Absolutely. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: But I love that you're just giving us something very pragmatic. That's so safe. So that's a lovely thought.

And as I'm thinking about the list you gave— and by the way, I want us to go into some of those, um, in a minute, of those 6. But as I'm thinking of them, I'm thinking of how many of those, um, have friction involved. Okay.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so for me, I, when I have recognized my life, I look at the hard things in my life and I think, you know, um, those are usually the things that I choose to make my, my buddy, my ally. I mean, they're an uneasy ally sometimes, but like stress. Instead of stress being the enemy, I try to make stress my ally.

Okay, so I'm curious, how does that hit you? And do you think we can use just any kind of challenges in our life to strengthen our sense of emotional endurance or emotional muscles?

Leslie M. Bosserman: So I'm a strong believer that God calls us to whatever we are able to handle with his support. So not without him, but when we are approached with setbacks, hardships, struggle, stress, it is an invitation to learn, to commit, and also to set healthy boundaries. So there, I was talking with another colleague about this interesting cultural dynamic, and if it's too hard, just don't do it.

I am a believer in the exact opposite of this. I strongly feel that if it's challenging, lean into it enough to understand it, to see what that next step is, or even that now step, maybe not the next step.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leslie M. Bosserman: But what's the now step? What's the invitation to learn just a little bit more? It doesn't mean you have to know the answer to begin.

It means you have to be willing to step in. And I use this beautiful story of when the Israelites are crossing the Red Sea. Now, the first time in Exodus 14, when Moses, he— the waters are parted, and they left, and they went into the wilderness.

And the wandering in the wilderness is sometimes how we feel. When we're being led by something that we didn't choose or didn't know about, right? But we're following, we're obedient.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hmm.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Now, on the flip side, when Joshua is leading the Israelites into the Promised Land through the Jordan, the Bible actually says he had to step in the water before the waters parted. And I hold that because so often hardship feels like we have to take the first step without knowing how deep it is. Without knowing if it's going to part, but with the trust and the faith that God would not lead us to a place for failure.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's so good. And it's so counterintuitive.

Leslie M. Bosserman: It's so counterintuitive, right? But that's what it challenges us to say. I am not God.

Thank God I am not God. And I can have a faith in something bigger and smarter and more powerful than me. And I have free will.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Both of those things are so amazing to me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, that's so good, Leslie. That's such a good paradigm to be reminded of. And so it makes me wonder, are there just some things like some obstacles and they might be spiritual obstacles or just internal obstacles that make this hard for us, like that make emotional endurance even more challenging?

Leslie M. Bosserman: So I think it depends a lot on your temperament. So I can only speak from my lived experience, but also as an entrepreneur who works as an executive leadership coach with clients from all around the world. And I have 3 young kids. And I'm also a preschool director, which is, again—

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Wild juxtaposition, right? Because those skill sets actually dovetail quite nicely, working with young children and their parents, and also coaching. So, I look at human development as an opportunity to continually refine our character.

So, whenever I'm focusing on helping someone move from stuck to started, or face a setback with a perspective that isn't defeat, right? So we're looking at being hopeful, being optimistic, being at least willing to try. Emotional endurance is sort of the fuel that helps you get there.

It's the toolbox that allows you to pull the skill out that you need to figure out what your next step is. But one thing you mentioned, Jennifer, is stress, and I wanted to just use this as an example.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

Leslie M. Bosserman: 100 years ago, there were 2 psychologists called Yerkes and Dodson that analyzed the relationship between stress and performance. And we often find that if we feel stressed, we want to back away from something because it feels too overwhelming. But what they found actually is stress fuels positive performance, but only to a point.

And we probably have had these experiences, whether you are birthing a child in labor with a purpose, or you're playing some athletic game and you're really like focused on the field, or you're doing something creative and you're in flow, but it's hard, but you're sticking with it, right?

Whatever that circumstance is, feeling a little bit of that emotional friction, that stress, that tension actually fuels our performance and our ability to become better until it tips us over a point where we kind of cascade down and cannot emotionally recover. So one of the skills that I teach in Emotional Endurance is how to expand your inner capacity to handle what's hard, to use your stress to your advantage, and actually limit the stress that's not helpful.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, okay, that is so practical. Right there is why 98% of us need the book, because we all live there.

Leslie M. Bosserman: And I had to live through it. I had to figure out, like, how do we actually do the hard things? And, you know, whether you're— again, I, I'm a mom who has a child with special needs.

There are times where Life is very messy and hard and absolutely not what I would have chosen. But it's beautiful and joyful and crazy. And I've made so many connections because of that.

So we look at some of the circumstances that we never chose, but we're in, and we're intentionally choosing to be in them to grow. And that's really what emotional endurance is. It's saying you might not choose where you are.

It might be something that you were born into or you experienced, yet Paul even wrote to all of the churches of the New Testament while he was in prison, right? He didn't choose that. So, we often can overcome our circumstances with a mindset of emotional endurance.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you said mindset, and I think that's where, that's where it all is. It's not about what's out there. It's about what's inside and what our mindset is and who's guiding our heart.

And as I hear Just a little snippet of your life. Preschool director, special needs child, 2 other children, coaching, teaching, all the things, girl. I think woman gotta be tired.

Okay, so Leslie, here's what I wanna know, cuz I know you address it in the book. How do you manage your energy? And because that has to impact your sense of emotional endurance.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Sure.

Jennifer Rothschild: So tell us how you do that and how we can do that.

Leslie M. Bosserman: So I live a pretty dynamic life. I'm not saying my life should be a model for other people. It works for us, and we've designed it really intentionally based on what we're passionate about and how we feel called to serve our community.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Leslie M. Bosserman: So based on that, if you're either working 1 job, 2 jobs, 5 kids, 1 kid, 0 kids, whatever you have, like, I look at what are you able to manage with a level of engagement And fulfillment where you don't reach burnout. And so I call this margin.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Um, Dr. Richard Swenson sort of popularized this. He has a book called Margin that I read 20 years ago, and he comes up with this formula for creating positive margin.

You look at the load you have, all the things you're responsible for. Some of them are great things, some of them are obligations, some of them are really hard external circumstances. And then you look at the power, your resources, your time, Your energy, all the things that allow you to make life happen better.

And margin is your amount of power minus your load. So if you don't feel rested, or if you don't feel like you have enough— I mean, there are times where I don't get enough sleep and I'm like, I'm going to be about 70% capacity today, maybe 60, maybe less. I have to be honest with myself and scale back what is realistic.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leslie M. Bosserman: So looking at what is possible for me based on what I have here. And then if I am, let's say my load is heavier than my power and I'm in negative margin, who's my village? Who am I asking for support? If I feel so alone in this, which I can sometimes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Sure.

Leslie M. Bosserman: When you have ownership over something, you often can delegate to people, but it's yours.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

Leslie M. Bosserman: So really looking at what are the structures I put in place where I'm not the bottleneck, where things don't just rely on Leslie being at— on her A-game. And also taking a regular Sabbath rest. So, that's something I practice my entire life.

It's biblically sound. Jesus did it. It's good enough for him. It's good enough for me. So, having that time where I am— I don't want to say off because I'm still a parent. It's still—

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, sure.

Leslie M. Bosserman: A day where things happen, but it's not a day where I have to be strategically planning, book launch details or emailing. It's, it's a day of a different rhythm, a different pace, and a day to just simply abide as well and model that for our children.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's so good. Yeah, because you're right, it does model for our children. And I think Sabbath is very difficult if it's not a rhythm.

You said the rhythm. I think that's so important because we are so habitual and our brains get used to our patterns and our habits. And even maybe just to start managing one's energy.

If you don't already have some kind of Sabbath in your life, you create that. I think right there, I mean, you're right. And yet Jesus did it.

God instituted it. It is good enough for us. All right, girl.

You mentioned earlier that in your book you cover these 6 principles, and they are— I love that they're grounded in both scripture and psychology. And of course, because any truth we find in psychology, we're going to find in scripture. I mean, there's just— the Bible is brilliant.

And these 6 core principles help build our emotional endurance. And you said there's 3 tactical, um, strategies with each. Okay.

So it's super pragmatic. So I want you to just to pick one that you think either is the one that most people you serve deal with, especially women, or the one that you have dealt with the most and kind of unpack it, explain it, and give us the 3 strategies, the 3 tactical ways we can manage it.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Ooh, so good. So, I'm gonna pick one that is a little counterintuitive, if you'll play with me.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

Leslie M. Bosserman: So under Principle 4, Courage to Change, skill number 10, it's titled Say Goodbye to Someday. So about 15, maybe even longer than that, 20 years ago, I sat down and I wrote an original fairy tale. And the chapter begins with this fairy tale.

I also did a TEDx talk back in 2024 and started it with this. So you can, if you want to hear me speak it, you can either listen to the audiobook, or you can listen to the really short TEDx talk. But what this whole skill focuses on is so often we get stuck in our shoulds, our coulds, and our somedays.

And I use the metaphor of the kingdom of should, the kingdom of could, and the battles they have in our mind. And then so often we just want to go on vacation. We just want to leave it all.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Drop it all and go to the Someday Isle to vacation. And so that might be, someday I'll have more money and time. Someday I'll have a cleaner house. Someday I'll be able to sleep past 7 AM. You know, so you can pick your someday isle. And I, I use this as a bridge.

It's a little bit comical at first, but it's so deep because it hits at our heart. Because oftentimes, we want to just vacation on this island that feels like, oh, in the future, things will be better, rather than saying, what is our purpose in the moment? Why, why is this hard right now?

And what is less hard about it? When is it a little less hard or a little less bad? And how do you lean into that?

Jennifer Rothschild: Hmm.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Instead of waiting for reality to shift and for -- to have a fruity drink in your hand and a big sun hat and no obligations. Because hopefully that will happen at some point, but that isn't reality. And in fact, if you ask most women or most people, if you could go and live in Hawaii year-round, the idea might be tempting, but I think it would be very lonely after about 2 to 3 weeks.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, wow.

Leslie M. Bosserman: Unless you have a village and a community there, right? Because we crave something, but what we actually crave is having more positive margin to have rest and renewal built into our regular routines and rhythms. Whew.

Jennifer Rothschild: That is so good. I think, oh my goodness, I think we've all fantasized about the Isle of Someday. And, and, um, listeners, we are gonna have for sure Leslie's, um, TEDx talk on the show notes so you can go straight to it.

Um, wow. That's, that's so creative. I love it.

All right, girl, we're gonna get to our last question here, Leslie. This is all been so good. I'm highly recommending the book. I'm so grateful you did the hard work of writing it and editing it down so that we can actually consume it.

Leslie M. Bosserman: That was actually harder than writing it, I think. But, you know, it's all about refinement, right? That's the growth goal.

Jennifer Rothschild: That is. You're so right. No, if people haven't written, I don't think they realize how hard editing is compared to writing.

But that's what makes it shine. So I'm so grateful for the hard work. All right, So the Jennifer Rothschild Show is the place where thoughtful people come to grow. So my last question to you is, what is one practice in your life that has helped you grow or that is helping you grow that you could share with our listeners?

Leslie M. Bosserman: So when I think about this whole framework of growth, I think the biggest thing that has helped me grow is staying curious. And I grew up in a fairly critical space where curiosity had moments to flourish, but I felt this constant pressure to perform and to overcome and to be better. And in my 20s, I had to unpack a lot of that when I finally went to college and kind of moved out.

And that's probably what helped me develop my own emotional endurance. I joke that in my 20s, I learned the skills that I taught in my 30s to other people and then wrote about now in my 40s. But being curious and having the ability when something doesn't go your way or something isn't working or you're just waiting, instead of jumping to this critical, resentful, ugly space, has been my number one thing that has helped me grow.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh my, there was so much here. You know what I really loved? That principle of saying goodbye to someday.

We need to do that, don't we? We need to just get unstuck from the should and from the could and just live your someday today. Just do the thing.

And you know what else? I thought it was such a great reminder that feelings are not marching orders. Oh, 'cause my friend, don't they feel like it sometimes?

They just feel like they're just bossing us around. But our feelings, they are not marching orders. They are messengers.

And so pay attention. What are they saying to you? What are they— what are they pointing out in your life?

Like, listen to the message, but don't let them be the boss of you. So no matter where this message has met you today, my friends, step into the water, as Leslie said, before—it parts. God is not going to lead you into failure.

All right, you know you can find what you need at the show notes. So, I want you to go to the show notes, whatever platform you're listening right now, and that's where you will find her book, Emotional Endurance. We're gonna have it there.

Plus, she has provided us some free downloads, which is so generous. They'll just get you started. And I will have a link also.

You remember she mentioned her TEDx talk? I'll have a link to that also so that you can check it out. Plus, I thought I would have one more thing there.

I've written a book called Me, Myself, and Lies, which I think will also help you with this, is what to say when you talk to yourself. Because sometimes we just have to be mindful of what's in our thought closet and how to get it cleaned out so that we're not weighed down with a bunch of junk. So lots of resources for you today.

Aren't you glad you came? I'm so glad you came. Would you share this episode with somebody who you know needs it?

Ask them to join us, because this is really where thoughtful people come to grow. And you know, if you've been listening to me for a while, this is a refresh. We were known as the 413 Podcast, and now it's the Jennifer Rothschild Show.

But I really, really, really, really— hear that? Really, really want to know what you think. So would you please leave a review?

I am happy for some constructive feedback, because my goal really— it might be called the Jennifer Rothschild Show, but my goal— Is to help you grow. is to serve you. I mean it. I want this to work for us.

I want it to be a conversation that works for all of us. So please leave a review. Let me know what you're feeling, what you're thinking.

And first of all, I must say this, whatever your thoughts are, I'm just grateful you're sharing them with me because I really want this podcast to be the place where thoughtful people come to grow. So thanks for being with me. Way to grow. See you next week.