4:13 Podcast: Can I Trust God Is Working Even When I Can’t See It? With Winston Bui [Episode 308]

Winston Bui: In Genesis 50:20, Joseph said, "What was meant for evil, God meant for good, for the saving of many lives." So if you're going through great frustration, great pain, just know that God is preparing you to make life better for a lot of people, that God has a great plan for you, and he will bring you out of that pain, out of that pit, out of that prison, and into your promotion.

Jennifer Rothschild: Through the killing fields of Vietnam, Winston Bui's family traveled on foot, by truck, and boat, barely escaping the war that was engulfing their country and threatening to take their dad as a political prisoner. Now, decades later, though, Winston is on The 4:13 to tell the story of God's rescue and redemption from a refugee with no country, to a redeemed child of God with a family and a forever home.

You are going to learn how God's love has no border, how miracles still happen, and how no matter what you face, God is working even when you can't see it. You're about to be blessed by Winston's story and blown away by his God. So let's do it.

K.C. Wright: Welcome, welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you and I up to live what we call the "I Can" life. Because -- here's truth -- you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, friends, me and K.C. are just sitting in here in the closet. It smells like coffee. In fact, K.C., you see my -- it's one of those Starbucks mugs?

K.C. Wright: Uh-huh. I got it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Which one is it? It's one of those Been There Done Thats. Have y'all ever seen those?

K.C. Wright: It says, "Home of the First Starbucks." There's a Gum Wall. It's the green --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah --

K.C. Wright: It's the green mug?

Jennifer Rothschild: -- it's the one I got in Pike's Place.

K.C. Wright: Uh-huh. It's got a guitar on it. Pike's Place, 1912.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. That was the first Starbucks.

So everywhere I go -- I don't know if you know this -- but I always buy a Been There Done That mug.

K.C. Wright: Oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I've got them from all these places where I've been and traveled. And I love them. They're so fun. But, you know, I've only broken two, and they're the two that I can't go back and replace easily.

K.C. Wright: Oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Like, it's not from Texas or Charlotte, North Carolina. It's the one from St. Andrew's in Scotland and Oxford, England.

K.C. Wright: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: I dropped both of those and they broke. I'm like, Why did I break international when I could have broken domestic and replaced them easily?

K.C. Wright: Now, you brought me home a mug from Oxford.

Jennifer Rothschild: I did.

K.C. Wright: And I'm willing to give it to you if you want it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Is it one of these?

K.C. Wright: No, it's not a Starbucks.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, no. I got to have the Starbucks.

K.C. Wright: Gotcha.

Jennifer Rothschild: I got to go back --

K.C. Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- just for the Been Theres. But that's sweet.

K.C. Wright: Because I love my little mug. I drink out of it all the time. I think of J.R.

Jennifer Rothschild: You got to keep it.

K.C., we are a good team.

K.C. Wright: We are.

Jennifer Rothschild: We are.

K.C. Wright: I was actually getting my hair cut the other day -- my ears lowered -- and the gal cutting my hair, she's like, "I want to listen to you on the podcast." I said, "Well, hand me your phone."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, good.

K.C. Wright: I do this at Fresh Grounded Faith conferences.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, you do.

K.C. Wright: I just help people find it. You know, you go right there on your phone and you download 4:13 Podcast and you follow, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

K.C. Wright: And she goes, "Well, explain it to me in a nutshell." And this is honestly what came out --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, really? Okay.

K.C. Wright: -- and it made me laugh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I want to hear this.

K.C. Wright: I said, "You want me to explain The 4:13 in a nutshell?" I said, "Okay." Here's the chemistry between my soul sister Jennifer and I. Okay? She knows the Greek behind Scripture. She knows the Hebrew, the eschatology. She can break down these words. Here's truth. Every time I record with this woman, she says a word that I later have to go home and Google.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, right.

K.C. Wright: Oh, it's facts. And then she goes, "Then what about you?" And I go, "Oh, I just sit there and talk about pinto beans."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh my gosh. You are so funny.

K.C. Wright: And she goes, "Explain." And I go, "Well, I still struggle with, you know, being single, and then one day I realized that I walked around all afternoon with a pinto bean from Chipotle hanging on my dress shirt." Well, that's why I'm single. Who's walking around with a bean on their shirt? So there's the difference. Jennifer's a Bible scholar and I'm talking about pinto beans. And that's The 4:13." She goes, "I can't wait to listen."

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Number one, you elevate me too much and diminish yourself too much. Okay. So those are both exaggerated, and that's why it's funny. But they are -- there are some seeds of truth there. And that's why I love you, because you keep it fun and you keep it -- y'all, K.C. makes me laugh. There is no faking it over here. In fact, he makes me laugh so much, I'm like, "Okay, enough. Stop. Let me turn on the mic so everyone else can laugh with you, Mister."

K.C. Wright: And also, in my heart of hearts I love you and Dr. Phil so much, and I'd fight for you.

Jennifer Rothschild: You are --

K.C. Wright: I love you guys and I mean it. We're family now.

Jennifer Rothschild: We are. I call you Bro Bro because you're my Bro Bro.

K.C. Wright: That's right. That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right. Well, let's introduce our other brother in Christ, Winston Bui. Because you even knew Winston from before, which I think is really cool, y'all have some history. But why don't you introduce him to our people.

K.C. Wright: Winston Bui was born in Vietnam and was raised as a Buddhist. As a teenager, he became a Christian, and has since become one of Chai Alpha Campus Ministries' top leaders nationwide. He pioneers a Chai Alpha Ministry at the University of Central Oklahoma, at the University of Missouri, and at UCLA, where he's currently serving. He's the author of "When We Were Refugees." And today my brother is an honorary 4:13er.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yay.

K.C. Wright: Oh, this guy, I'm telling you, he's got a heart bigger than Texas. I've been to Haiti with him. I've seen this man firsthand serve and love others with the hands and feet of Jesus.

So let's listen in to this powerful conversation.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Winston. I've only read the beginning of your book and I've been so curious and enchanted. So let me just start with the beginning of your story. You grew up, you were a little boy in your seaside city in Vietnam of Nha Trang -- or I may have said that wrong. But your family had to flee from that seaside city of your boyhood to avoid -- or to try to escape the war that was ripping through your country in Vietnam. So you made it to Saigon, you're about six years old, and unfortunately, as we all know, the war followed you.

So you describe that trucks were rumbling down your street, there's soldiers with guns, and then something was thrown through your window. So -- it came from an army vehicle and -- I want you to start your story right there. What happened?

Winston Bui: So my dad was a captain in the South Vietnamese Army at that time, and he came to a moment where he realized the battle was coming to an end, that North Vietnam was making their way -- the Viet Cong, they were making their way to South Vietnam and that the battle was coming to a close. And during that moment in history, U.S. Troops pulled out of Vietnam, and my dad -- because he was a captain in the South Vietnamese Army. He was battle-tested and he sensed the battle was coming to an end, so basically he told the family, "We need to get out of here. We got to leave Saigon. We have to leave South Vietnam."

Jennifer Rothschild: How, Winston, did he communicate that? Like, what came through the windows that you knew that?

Winston Bui: Yeah. He sent a little note. He just wrote something on a piece of paper and he sent us a message that he was going to come back for us at a certain day and certain time and we needed to get out of there. So that's how we did it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. Okay. Well, that was brilliant.

So then he does end up coming back for you, and you guys -- your whole family escapes on this rocket-damaged ship. So where was it that this ship took you to?

Winston Bui: Let me just quickly give a little -- some sights and sounds with that. So he came back. We left many things behind. We left our house, our furniture, and we began to walk. And we walked for many days, for many miles. We walk around many dead bodies. And we finally got to the ocean. And we got to the sea, on that day thousands of refugees trying to escape, hundreds of boats trying to escape. And during that day in that season, even though thousands of boats didn't make it and -- thousands of refugees didn't make it and hundreds of boats didn't make it on that day in that season, even though we were surrounded by just bloodshed and dead bodies and just -- you can hear the bullets everywhere.

Even though we were surrounded around by craziness and chaos, somehow, someway on a certain day we got on this boat -- we got on one of the bigger boats. We got on this boat. And as we got on this boat, hundreds of people got on the same boats we did. And there were definitely small boats leaving, but we got on one of the bigger boats. And as we were heading up to the boat, we looked back, and that was the official day of the fall of Saigon.

My family and I -- actually, we were part of the original boat people, and we left on April 30th, 1975. April 30th, 1975, was the official day of the fall of Saigon, and that is the day that we escape Vietnam. And as we were sailing out, the Viet Cong, they shot a cannon and it hit our boat, left a big hole in our boat. But somehow, someway, the boat kept going. And I believe that was the sovereignty of God, his right hand. The boat kept sailing out and we were out in the ocean for days.

Jennifer Rothschild: Miraculous. That is miraculous.

And how significant -- if you had been there one hour longer or one day longer, your story would be very different, Winston.

Winston Bui: Definitely.

Jennifer Rothschild: Now, where did that ship -- where did you arrive? Like, where did your story emerge from there?

Winston Bui: Yeah, great question. We were out in the ocean for days. And many boats and many people drowned at sea. Many people didn't make it because of the lack of food and lack of water. Some boats, some people made it to Hong Kong, to China, to the Philippines, to different places. But our boat was a big boat. We were out there for days. And we didn't think we're going to make it, but one day, somehow, someway, a U.S. Navy ship discovered us, found us, and they gave us food, water, supplies, and they helped patch that hole in our boat. And they in a great sense rescued us and then we were able to get to different places. And through a series of different events -- like, we made it to Wake Island and then to different places. And then we ended up and we made it to America in 1975.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. And so, Winston, you were a boy at this point. And I can only imagine how that sense of uncertainty, fear, a lack of safety could have made such an impression on your young developing mind and heart. And so in a few questions I want to talk to you about that.

But before we get to that, I want to know what your family faith system was. I thought you were Buddhist, your family was Buddhist. So can you talk to me a little bit about that. And now you are a believer in Christ. How did this transition take place in your story?

Winston Bui: Born in a Buddhist nation and -- I was born in Saigon, Vietnam. And all of my family members, we were all Buddhists, and that was the way of life. And when I became a believer in Christ in high school, it was not an easy transition, but I found Christ. And just after I found Jesus and became a follower of Jesus Christ, I made a pledge and promised to pray for my family members. And I just made the decision that I want them to know Jesus Christ and just -- I've been praying them for years now.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, God hears those prayers and he is faithful to complete them.

Winston Bui: Yes, he is.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I'm agreeing with you in prayer.

Well, he has rescued you and your family for a purpose. And it's a difficult and beautiful story. Because so many of us, you know, Winston, in America would hear about Vietnam, we'd watch it on the news. We've heard about it for years. But to hear your story and to know that you were so personally affected, it's just such a picture of rescue. Okay? It's a harrowing picture of rescue. And so what I think is amazing is that -- like you mentioned, it's the sovereignty of God even that you got out when you did, that --

Winston Bui: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- the Navy ship came and patched up that hole and was able to give you the provisions you needed to get you to the next place, to the next place, to America. That is the sovereignty of God before you even knew him.

Winston Bui: Absolutely.

Jennifer Rothschild: So what's beautiful is he has rescued you, and now he has raised you up to rescue others. So our listeners -- I talked about it in the introduction, me and K.C. You are a part of Chai Alpha's Campus Ministries. You're one of the top leaders nationwide. So talk about how God redeemed your story from what it could have been and how he can redeem and rewrite all of our stories.

Winston Bui: We were refugees. We were trying to escape South Vietnam. And as a six-year-old boy, I was standing at a certain spot. And we got to a point we were thirsty and we asked some nice people for water and they gave to us. But I can remember as a six-year-old boy standing in a corner all by myself in a certain spot. And there was a 50-pound bag of uncooked rice and I was so hungry. And opened up that bag, and I took a handful of rice and started eating uncooked rice. I saw little potential, a little opportunity, not much of a future, but God saw something else.

And I would have never imagined as a six-year-old boy just standing there that years later that I would be speaking in front of hundreds and thousands of people, that I would be speaking in different arenas and significant places and sharing my story when we were refugees and sharing people about my wins and my defeats and sharing people about the memories of South Vietnam and sharing people about the different stories and breakthroughs and wins in my life. And I'm just so thankful to God that even though as a six-year-old boy, I saw from a natural perspective; God saw it from a supernatural perspective.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so even now, someone who feels like they are -- maybe not a literal refugee, but they feel kind of lost at sea, like, they're disenfranchised, like their -- where is their future, how would you speak to someone, Winston, knowing your God and seeing how he has worked in your story? How could you encourage them today if they feel sort of lost?

Winston Bui: Yes. Every one of us, we go through crazy situations, we go through great crazy circumstances. And if you're going through a dangerous place right now, if you're going through a difficult season, if you're going through great pain, I just want to encourage you. We all go through seasons of just pain and difficulty.

But I was -- in Genesis 37, I was reading about the life of a young man named Joseph. For almost 14 years he went through great pain. He went to the pit and then in the prison, and almost 14 years later God promoted him. He became second in command in Egypt.

And if you're going through great pain, I just want to just encourage you, just hang in there. Be tenacious, be relentless. And when you get that moment where you think you're just about to break down, if you would just hang in there and put your hope in Jesus Christ, he will bring you to the other side and he will make a way for you. And usually when you get to the other side, there's a miracle waiting for you, and there's a reason why you're going through that pain, that pit, that prison. And if you will hang in there, God will promote you, and he's preparing you for something much greater through your season of testing, through your depression, through your discouragement.

And I want to wrap up this question -- this answer by saying this. In Genesis 50:20, Joseph said, "What was meant for evil, God meant for good, for the saving of many lives." So if you're going through great frustration, great pain, just know that God is preparing you to make life better for a lot of people, that God has a great plan for you and he will bring you out of that pain, out of that pit, out of that prison, and into your promotion.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, preach.

Okay. You are so right, Winston, and your life is living proof of that. And what I love too, my brother, is that you added that perspective that it's -- it's not just about us.

Winston Bui: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: That what Winston Bui has gone through, God is using for the redemption of many. And so our pain has a great purpose because it's not just about us.

Winston Bui: And, Jennifer, if God can use a refugee like me, Winston Bui, God can use you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm. He does, doesn't he?

Winston Bui: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right. So one of the things that I have heard -- and this is going to be our last question, Winston. And I'm highly recommending the book, because clearly we can't get into your whole story and all the encouragement and practical application here.

But one of the things I've heard through your story, that I keep going back to, is this idea of what it must have been like to grow up in a war-torn country, to as a child have that food insecurity, the safety insecurity. You know, even in psychology we learn about our hierarchy of needs, and that bottom level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs is that need for food and shelter and safety.

And so I would love to know, just as we wrap this up, how you, even in those moments where you were unsafe -- and there's a lot of people in our world right now, and maybe in their own private worlds, who feel unsafe. How is it that our relationship with God and our faith in him can give us that sense of safety and security that we need?

Winston Bui: If you're going through a crazy situation right now, I do know this. We serve a God that is there for you. We serve a God that's there for us. He's always with us, even when we don't feel like he's there. But if we can just get our eyes on Jesus Christ, he is with us.

And I just feel like I need to say this. But as we just stay with him -- some of you that are listening to me right now, I just want you to know that our God, he has resources, relationships, answers, and solutions that we know not of, and he will always make a way out for you. He will make a way out and up for you and he will take care of you. And if you're listening to me right now, you don't have to have great faith in God. All you have to do is turn your eyes on him and ask him for help and he will make a way when there seems to be no way.

Jennifer Rothschild: Winston is 100% right, we serve a God who is there for you, with you, even when you don't feel it. Don't you think Winston's story is just perfect proof of that?

K.C. Wright: Amen. Our God has resources, relationships, answers, and solutions. He will make a way out and up. He will take care of you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: And as Winston said, you don't have to have great faith in God, just turn your eyes to him.

Well, this was such an inspiring story. You need to read the whole book. So go to the Show Notes now at 413podcast.com/308 and we'll link you to his book. You can read the transcript from this inspiring conversation right there too.

All right, this one is a wrap. Until next week, you can trust that God is working, even when you can't see it, because he is. And you and I can do all things through Christ who gives you supernatural strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, K.C., my -- there's only a little coffee left in my cup. So it's empty and, let's be honest, my bladder's full. We're done.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: We're done for today.

K.C. Wright: We're done.