Jennifer Rothschild Show: Uncomplicating Adult Children Relationships with Dr. Kathy Koch

**NOTE: This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors, misspellings, or mistranslated words.**

Dr. Kathy Koch: It's hard, but comment on what's going well. I'm a former educator, even a former professor, and I can tell you that a parent or a student who only shared the negative with me was much harder to listen to than a parent or a student who shared affirmation and then also had correction. So I just, human nature is, man, here she comes again with that red pen.

So look for what's going well and trust them to God, right? Like, don't put your hope in your kids to raise your grandkids. Put your hope in God and ask that he would break through any barrier, that he would speak clearly to them about his ways and his will and his wisdom.

Jennifer Rothschild: Welcome to the Jennifer Rothschild Show. This is where thoughtful people come to grow, and that includes you. So I'm so glad you're here today, 'cause today we're talking about relationships.

With adult children. We're gonna hear from an expert, Dr. Kathy Koch, and she's gonna touch on like how to resolve conflict, how to manage boundaries, and really importantly, how to develop friendships between parents and adult kids. So you might be a parent of an adult child, or maybe you're the adult child and you wanna learn about your relationship with your parent. Listen, this is good for all of us because can we be honest?

No one told us that this kind of relationships could be complicated or hard or even painful sometimes. But oh, my friend, there is hope and there is help. So settle in and get comfy because we're going to learn about this today.

I'm glad you chose to be here. And you may know that this is new. This is the second an episode of the Jennifer Rothschild Show.

And I get it, you may not have been here last week, or you have been a part of the 4:13 Podcast for the last 7 years and you're wondering what's happening. So I'll just remind you, it is the same great content of the 4:13 Podcast. We just made some changes.

We've changed the name, we've got a new sound as you heard, we got a new look, we just rearranged a couple of things. So that means all the things you love, like the great content, there's just the family vibe that we've got around here. KC All of us are still going to be around, just things are a little rearranged.

So today we're going to hear from an expert and she's going to be talking about adult relationships. Now it's been a good week around here for me because not only are we talking about the book on adult relationships by Dr. Kathy Koch, but I've got a new book and I just needed to give you a quick shout out and tell you about it. It is called Heaven for Today.

It's a devotional on heaven, and you can find it to purchase it or to learn more about it at heavendevo.com or at the Jennifer Rothschild Show podcast. But y'all, it is gonna be just a beautiful gift to you to help you live heaven now. The promises of heaven, they're not just for tomorrow, they are for right now, and they're gonna boost you, give you hope, give you an eternal perspective.

It's all new material, mostly new material if you've done the Heaven Bible study. It's a gift to you from my heart. So I hope you'll check it out because I'm just super thankful for it.

It's not only inspiring content, but it's a beautiful presentation also. So, okay, but speaking of books, we're not going to be talking about heaven. We're going to talk about adult children today.

Now, it used to be simpler when they were little. Remember, remember that, you parents? Remember how simple it used to be?

Well, I've got a reminder for you because my husband, Phil, he was driving with some grandkids in the vehicle. We've got several, and this time John Robert was 4 years old.

He's in the back seat, and I just want you to hear how simple and delightful this was. So sit in the front seat with my honey, Dr. Phil, and listen to his conversation with one of our grandsons, little Johnny.

Phil Rothschild: The boys were telling me, and specifically John— Johnny was telling me that— what's his name?

John Robert: Jesse

Phil Rothschild: Jesse can whistle even though he's 4. That's pretty amazing. And then Johnny said he can whistle a kind of too. Go ahead, Johnny.

John Robert: [Makes high pitched sound]

Phil Rothschild: That's his whistle. I like it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, they do grow up and things can get a little wonky sometimes. So that's why Dr. Kathy is with us today. Let me tell you who she is.

She is an incredible author and she is the founder of Celebrate Kids, where she trains parents to love well, lead wisely, trust God deeply, and genuinely enjoy their kids no matter what age they are. She lives in Fort Worth, Texas, and she has written 9 books, including the one we're talking today, which is titled Resolve Conflict and Find Peace with Adult Children. Mm, good stuff.

So let's settle in and listen to Dr. Kathy Koch.

[INTERVIEW BEGINS]

All right, Dr. Kathy, I told you off mic that I am sorry to say this is a really relevant topic that we need to talk about today. And I actually am sorry to say it's relevant, but I'm grateful we're talking about it because I have adult kids and I have friends with adult kids.

And unfortunately, I hear way too often, you know, that their hearts are broken, their relationship with their kids are strained, and, and Well, I would just put it this way, like their adult kids have unfriended them, you know what I'm saying? So what gives?

Can you give us an understanding? Why is this seeming to be epidemic proportions right now?

Dr. Kathy Koch: Well, first of all, I want to say thank you for having me on the show. I've admired you for years, so I'm excited to be here. And I agree with you, I wish we didn't have to talk about this, but you know, praise God that he shares his insights, and, and here we are.

Um, you know, there are adult children who are remembering the past badly. They are being told by therapists, counselors, social media followers, or people they're following you know, that, oh, that couldn't have possibly happened that way.

So they're beginning to believe a lie, which is really, really sad, um, you know, giving up on parents, parents who were imperfectly perfect for them, who they now are exaggerating the faults about. So that's a big problem and really sad.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, big time sad. And I, and I'm seeing it.

In fact, I was just talking with somebody who's another author who has a book coming out on this, and he's looking at it from a pastoral perspective on helping the parents because he's seeing it as such an epidemic. He even said he thinks this youth, which is I think what you have referred to He calls them over-therapized or something like that.

Dr. Kathy Koch: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, because they've just gotten perhaps bad counsel about their past.

Dr. Kathy Koch: That's a really good point, Jennifer. And another thing that's happened is that what we— what I'm seeing in the research and our— my process here is that many young people who were helicoptered as children have distanced themselves from their parents because they don't think their moms can parent any other way. So it's preventative for people who are listening who don't yet have a problem, like, praise God.

And if you start to back away now and let them transition into adulthood and into some freedom, then perhaps they're going to stay with you as they become older adults. If you've helicoptered and you overmanaged and you overcontrolled, they don't want that now. Now they want to grow up.

Now they need to grow up, and they don't think you can do it differently. So maybe you apologize and say, man, I understand now how my direction might have come across as disrespectful. That's not what I meant, but I'm going to learn to kind of back away and, and share less frequently if that's what you need.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, okay, that's good. See, that's good advice, and we're going to get to some more of that. So, because I just— oh, I just see this is so relevant.

Okay, so one of the things you say, Dr. Kathy, that I appreciated— so obviously parents, I'm a parent, I'm always going to be a parent, right? But you say that parent is my noun, okay? And children, our kids, are always going to be our kids.

But you write that parents of adult children cannot use parent as a verb unless they're invited. Okay. Oh, I love it. Unpack it.

Dr. Kathy Koch: Hey, thanks for loving that. That's cool. Yeah, again, they don't want advice, instruction, control, management. They want support, guidance, help, friendship. Hopefully that's going to happen as we continue to walk with them. So yeah, you're not a parent verb unless they ask.

If they say, you know, Dad, I'm struggling in my job, I know you had a season where you were really struggling with your boss. How did you end up deciding what to do? Like if they ask you, praise God, and then share with them, you know, succinctly what happened.

If they don't ask, but you observe it, make yourself available. Praise, certainly. Look for teachable moments, but keep your mouth shut and simply walk with them and look for opportunities to be a coach, a cheerleader, a mentor, a guide, a support system, and wait to be invited into the conversation.

If you don't, it sounds like criticism when you do, and it's unsolicited, and it's not gonna be heard well. But it's hard. It's so hard, Jennifer. Because if you've been always giving your input, then it's hard, but I'm asking you to believe that this might be a game changer for you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you said the word earlier, disrespectful. They are, you know, I'm a mom of young men, and I mean, early on I was like, "Lord, help me to never do anything that would come across emasculating to them." I happen to be blind too, so one of my things was, "Help me to raise them in such a way that I don't make them think they have to rescue every woman."

Like, you know, "Lord, help me to be strong and independent." because I want them to have healthy relationships with women, not swoop in and try to be the fixer. And I realized how important it was for them to feel respected early on.

I don't think we realize that sometimes as parents. So give us a little bit of tangible advice here. So let's say there's a mama going, uh-oh, um, I'm a parent of adult children, and yeah, listen, Willis, I can tell they're not doing it right, you know, like they need my advice, but I'm gonna try to be the noun, not the verb.

How do they coach? Like, how can they enter into relationship and still have coaching without blurring the are being disrespectful?

Dr. Kathy Koch: Right, such a good question. Again, I think we ask for permission to share. We observe and we say, man, I've noticed a few things.

Are you interested in my input? If not, hey, that's okay. And then it has to be okay, like, if they say, hey, not yet, because ultimately, don't we want them to figure it out?

Don't we want them to launch well and be independent? Like, I want them to be dependent and independent at the same time, right? God ordained the family before he ordained the church, so the family is super relevant.

I don't want them to ever, you know, totally walk away, but I also don't want them to need you when they're 45. What are they gonna do when you're gone? So I think we ask for permission, we indicate we've got something to share, are you interested?

And you know what else, Jennifer? We have to understand that different isn't always bad. Different is different.

And we have to understand that culture's different now, schooling is different, nutrition is viewed as being different, et cetera, et cetera. So maybe we ask some questions. Maybe we say, man, you are doing it differently.

Dr. Kathy Koch: Can you help me understand why? And we avoid things like, "We didn't raise you this way." Oh my goodness, like, they know you didn't raise them that way.

And we don't have to say every time we see them, "Are you gonna go to church tomorrow?" They know that we want them to go to church. So again, we look for opportunities to speak up.

Hey, you know what? Our story doesn't lie. So we say things like, "Man, could I tell you about church the other day? It was amazing. Like the most vibrant service ever. The way that they honored mothers was the best I think I've ever seen.

And I've been to probably 46 Mother's Day services, you know?" So we share about our experiences hoping that they're going to want to know. No, they're going— they will want to know more as they respect us. But we, again, we're careful in those situations. I hope that comes across okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, that comes across great, because what I hear you saying is we're relating to them almost like peer-to-peer, adult-to-adult. Because I would not go to my neighbor and say, you should go to church, or why do you feed your children that? You know, that would not be my place.

So that's a really good paradigm to think about. Um, okay. So here's the thing that I see also though.

You mentioned the family is the most important, and before the church, God ordained the family. And so then our kids grow up and they marry and they're beginning a family.

And a lot of parents freak out over this and things get very confusing. So can you give us an idea of kind of like what you see most and tell us how parents can adapt to their children being married, especially if it's something they're not super comfy with?

Dr. Kathy Koch: Right, that's so good. So let's pray early on for our children and potential spouses, right? Like I hear from parents all the time that they're praying for their child's spouse.

And then I say, are you praying for your child? Like, are you praying for your child to be ready for a spouse? Are you praying that they're ready for marriage?

Are you praying that they'll be humble and patient and properly submissive and properly, you know, as properly leading and following, et cetera, et cetera. And then, you know, when they marry, let's understand too that we don't fall in love overnight. So be patient with yourself.

Hopefully your children have married good partners and they share the faith and they share values. If not, of course, that's sad. You have a right to your sadness, and please grieve.

I have a whole chapter on grief. Grieve the loss of expectations, dreams, potential values, et cetera. Walk in and talk things out, but be careful, of course.

Choose to fall in love with the spouse. Choose to look for the good, not just the bad. I kinda joke about carrying around a green pen and not a red pen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh.

Dr. Kathy Koch: Right? Like, look for what's good, not just for what's wrong, bad, or different. And then get to know the in-laws, get to know the sisters and brothers of the spouse, get to know nieces and nephews.

Like, if you spend Christmas, Easter, Mother's Day, whatever together, July 4th picnic, choose to get to know the family members you don't know well yet. You know, tell me about your background, or what are some of your favorite family memories? You know, how important has faith been to you?

And get to know them, because that's respectful. And then hopefully from there you won't be, you know, looking badly on the next family conversation that you're going to have to have.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's a really good word. And basically you're also saying get outside yourself, don't make it all about you. Oh yeah, are they relating to me?

Um, I will say, and gosh, I know this is tender territory, so, um, I hope I don't misstep, but I have observed, um, with moms as they age. There are some moms who literally have an expectation of their adult children that is a little bit— I'm not sure based in reality as I would understand reality. Like, they expect their children are going to call them every day or every week. They don't -- they don't reach out to them. They expect to be served, called.

What they want for dinner is what everyone has every holiday. You know, talk to us who may be moms What is our right heart posture with our children?

Dr. Kathy Koch: Oh yeah, let's go to some hard places, Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Kathy Koch: Well, you know, biblically we want them to cleave to their spouse, correct? We want them, like, especially if you have a son, like, you know, you've got these men that you've raised with your husband, praise God. You want them to seek the wife's counsel.

You want them to vent to a wife appropriately. You want them to say to a wife, "Man, I'm just conflicted about," "Help me make my next decision." If they continue to come to a mom or a dad instead of a spouse, that's not healthy.

If they choose a spouse and one or two parents, because parents have been proven to be, you know, good advisors, good teachers, they've got shared values and they're good sounding boards, you know, I think that's great. But man, I think one of the things I say in the book is if a child comes to you and vents or is asking for input, I would love for you to say first, Have you talked with Joni about this? You know, have you talked with Jason?

Like, let's not take the place of the spouse. And again, I write in the book, Jennifer, like, we miss our kids. Of course you miss your kids.

You used to be with them all the time. So again, grieve that and understand it's going to change. If you don't understand that and you hold on too tight, they will resist that.

It will not be respectful and they will run. And frankly, I don't blame them.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. You know what it reminds me of back in junior high, the poster on my wall, "If you love something, let it go." You know?

But it's true. You gotta love 'em enough to lose, um, the, the level of relationship you might have had. But it's different, it just changes. Okay.

Dr. Kathy Koch: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, uh, Dr. Kathy, here's, um, interesting because— so let's say we're okay with the spouse, everything's cool, kumbaya, Thanksgiving, but then they have children and we are watching these children we raise now parents, and we're like, what in the world, they are screwing up these grandkids, or they're not doing it right. Okay, we're not real happy So what do we do as adult parents?

Dr. Kathy Koch: This is so challenging. Again, we have a right to opinions. We have a right to even beliefs. Let's understand though, they're not our children. First thing I have to say here, they're not your children. They're your grandchildren.

And one of the things I heard over and over again in my interviews was the adult children who said, "Man, they disrespect. They walk into my house, they start cleaning without asking." and they come in and they question decisions we're making for the kids.

Like, why are they eating that? Why are they still up? Are you allowing him to game? Like, have you checked the quality of that literature? What about your school choice? Like, again, you know, they're not your kids.

And so what you're wanting is what, a cookie-cutter replication? But they're not your kids. So we're created in God's image, not ours. We're different. Let's understand that different is different. It might not be bad.

Let's get to know what they're doing. But seriously, if I heard it once, I heard it 1,000 times. They're not my children's parents, they're my children's grandparents.

And I want you to be grand. I want you to be a grand partner. I want you to be available. I want you to sing over them. I want you to be your grandchildren's cheerleaders. I want you to be your children's cheerleaders.

I want you to walk in again, like I said, and look for something that's going well, and then stay available. Like, Lord willing, they haven't separated from you yet, and you're available so that if they have crisis, they call you and you say, "Mom, you know, do you have any input, any advice, any instruction about what's going on?" And then you've earned the right to speak up because you haven't over-parented them or even tried to grandparent the kids.

I think, again, it's hard, but comment on what's going well. I'm a former educator, even a former professor, and I can tell you that a parent or a student who only shared the negative with me was much harder to listen to. Than a parent or a student who shared affirmation and then also had correction.

So I just, human nature is, man, here she comes again with that red pen. So look for what's going well and trust them to God, right? Like don't put your hope in your kids to raise your grandkids, put your hope in God and ask that he would break through any barrier, that he would speak clearly to them about his ways and his will and his wisdom.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, Dr. Kathy, you're good at this. You— the Lord has gifted you. I mean, the whole green pen is a good visual.

I want to be grand as a grandparent. That is— I mean, that's magnanimous. That's bigger than little. I mean, that's good. All that is a really good image. I love that.

And so most of our listeners are believers in Christ. And the other thing I hear from people— thankfully it's not my story at this moment— but there's a lot of parents whose adult kids have walked away from their faith.

So their hearts are broken, they're freaking out. What would you say to them?

Dr. Kathy Koch: Certainly first, I'm sad with you. Again, you have a right to your disappointment, even maybe some anger and fear. Don't parent from fear.

That's not biblical or healthy. Process your anger, process your grief. Recognize that most parents, I wonder if you'll agree with this, Jennifer, I think most parents look back with today's wisdom and judge themselves very harshly, and that's not healthy.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Dr. Kathy Koch: So since you raised your children, how many Bible studies have you gone to, podcasts have you heard, prayers have you prayed, sermons have you listened to, et cetera, et cetera? So you're thinking, man, why didn't I do this better? Why didn't I know this?

I've had people say, you know, why didn't I have your book 10 years ago? Well, you didn't have your book. I only wrote it a month ago, you know? So, you know, but you have it now. And so we look forward with hope. We don't look back with big regrets.

We pray that someone will introduce them back into the culture of church and into a relationship with Christ. It might not be you. If you think it has to be you that wins them back to Christ or back to the church, that's idol worship of yourself.

And I don't say that lightly. It might not be you. Can you pray that a coach in the summer league would be a Christian?

Can you coach that a new hire where your son works would be a believer? Can you pray that they would stumble across a neighbor who's active in a nearby church and invites them and they say yes? And I can tell you stories of where that's happened.

So I think we're careful of looking back, we look forward, we pray for others to engage. We look for small growth. Look for small growth.

Friends of mine had a nephew who showed up for a Good Friday service. Of all services on Easter weekend, he chose Good Friday. And he loved it, and he stayed around and talked afterwards.

And he showed up for Easter and he stayed for lunch. And they hadn't done anything from a Christian perspective with him in, I think it was 11 years. And he just showed up.

And so pray and celebrate and expect it because God is good, and remember God loves them more than you do. I could talk, you know, as you know, there's a whole chapter on that. It's hard.

Pray and grieve. Get yourself surrounded by like-minded people. Don't live this alone.

Don't be in isolation. Be careful of the gossip prayer chain. A lot of the adult kids think that prayer is gossip, so be careful who you share with.

But don't live in isolation that you have a kid who has left the faith. Make sure you have somebody that you can share with, perhaps even a pastor or a small group leader would pray with you on a regular basis. That's going to comfort and encourage you big time.

Jennifer Rothschild: As I hear you talk too, I think sometimes too parents are ashamed, like, "How did I screw this up?" Or, or they're ashamed because they internalize what they consider failure, or they think it looks badly upon themselves if their children aren't in church. And neither one of those are worthy. Neither one.

Dr. Kathy Koch: Oh, totally, my friend. That's one of the things that I camp on often, whether I'm doing live speaking or in books that I write. It can't be about you. Many of us have been guilty of parenting so that we look good.

And I had an adult recently at a conference I did, this was so frightening, Jennifer. You know what she said to me? She picked up my book and she said, "I'm tired of being responsible for my mom's joy."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh my goodness.

Dr. Kathy Koch: She had felt, and I don't say that lightly, and I'm not, I don't want any listener to feel as they heard that, don't go to that shame and blame place. Go forward with hope. But this is, if you have idolized them and over-parented them and they were afraid to make mistakes for fear that you would look bad, that is a reality here.

And we just have to do that. Now, you can't go back and parent, so it's really stressful, and I realize that. But you can change forward and you can even apologize and say, "Man, I have a new revelation.

I realize that." You know, you're fragile and weak. Now, be careful of how you say that, but you know, you've even indicated that you feel weak, and I wonder if that's partly my fault because I didn't let you grow through the valleys.

Man, I've gotta grow up and change that. I trust you to walk out of valleys. You are mature and you're a wise thinker and you're creative, and man, I've diminished your possibilities by making it about me, and I'm disappointed in myself. Would you please give me another chance? That would be amazing if they would hear that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, and I will say, I would think right there, that is humble, honest communication that we should receive from anyone. And I know there's lots of extra baggage that comes.

Like, I was even in a conversation with, with a parent once, and my husband overheard. He goes, why are you so upset? That was no big deal.

I said, oh no, you did not hear 70 years worth of things that I have heard, or have, you know, 50 years. But the point is, we have to take it, that present moment, and receive it humbly and speak it humbly based on the present moment, not throw all baggage from all our former mistakes into it, because it's not fair to either of us.

Dr. Kathy Koch: So that is so good. You know, Jennifer, if the mom or dad says it but it's not received, they still said it and owned it, and it's good for their heart and their spirit.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen. Good word, Dr. Kathy.

Okay, so I was going to ask you about any communication hacks with our adult kids. You've given us a couple, but I think what would be even more helpful— are there some things that like we as parents should never Like, just don't say that to your child, your adult child.

Dr. Kathy Koch: Well, yeah, you know, "I told you so," or, "We raised you better than this." I think that's a really dangerous phrase. Understand that there's much that's influencing them now, and so you don't have to remind them of that.

It's, again, it's not about you, it's about them moving forward. I would say, not in direct answer to your question, but I would say listen to understand versus listen to judge, correct, and reply. Listen to understand, which means you say things like, hey, keep talking, I'd like to understand more about this.

Because the more that they tell you, the greater the likelihood that the first thing you say will be relevant. And now they're going to keep listening to you. So listen longer to understand, not to judge, correct, or reply.

And also, Jennifer, what about you statements versus I statements, right? So we say things like, you know, I'm disappointed when I don't hear from you. Especially when you tell me that you'll reach out.

Like you told me you'd let me know about the doctor's appointment. So I was expecting that you'd follow through and you didn't. I'm disappointed when you don't follow through versus you didn't tell me what happened at the doctor's office, right?

So that you statement sounds much more judgmental, much more pointed. And I know you wanna say it, you know, but for, and I actually joke in the book, like practice in front of the mirror, you know, I feel disappointed or I am sad when you don't follow through. Again, you have a right to your emotions.

But don't, you know, don't use it as a damaging kind of pointing finger to your kids who are older, who need your respect. But you have a right— again, how many times have I said it— you have a right here.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, it's good you keep saying it because I appreciate the balance, because I think a parent could just assume all the guilt, say, okay, I blew it then, now I'm blowing it now, and I'm sure any problem with my adult child is my fault, which is untrue, okay? They can screw up too and be in sin. They are dirty rotten sinners just like we are.

So, you know, we can all mess up. So I do think that's important for us as parents, not to just assume it's always our fault, our responsibility, for the relationship issue. But we have the responsibility to respond in godliness no matter what.

And so, amen. I have a friend whose adult child— okay, so most of us who have, might have this issue, Dr. Kathy, are just like, it's kind of just messed up. Maybe it's fuzzy communication or awkward conflict or whatever.

But then there's some, like my friend, whose adult daughter has she cut her off when she got married. She cut off her mama when she got married.

My friend has never even met her grandchildren. Okay, what are some of the reasons in your experience that adult children literally just cut off ties with their parents?

Dr. Kathy Koch: Sadly, the new spouse can be very influential there. I just want to shake them, man. How rude of anyone to want a spouse to reject family of origin.

That's just— especially if they are believers, that's just ridiculous. Yeah, um, I think it's, it's fear. It's control.

You know, I, I want my values, I want my way or the highway. I don't want Dad and Mom to still be influential. So again, it's control, it's a wrong view of submission and leadership.

Certainly I would go there. Scared daughters who don't know how to speak up and stand up for themselves are probably a part of that action as well. Social media, whoever they're following that we don't even know they're following, that is, you know, these people are explaining you've got to view it this way, you're not viewing it correctly, and fall into that trap.

If they've been on social media their entire teen life, they think social media is the end-all and that those people know them better than even their parents. So I think it's easier for them to fall away. Now, again, there could be parents who were critical quickly, that were controlling, that maybe didn't love easily the spouse, and the husband is afraid of that and is judgmental toward that and says, man, you know, they don't, they don't like me, let's separate.

And he didn't give them a chance to get to like and then love them. And so It's just sad. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So what does— no matter what the reason for the cut, what does an adult parent do? What can they do?

Dr. Kathy Koch: You grieve, and I mean it. You have to accept what is. You grieve what isn't. You reject the lies. You embrace the truth, and you work on what you can. You accept what is, and you say it.

Radical acceptance. I accept the reality that my son-in-law and daughter currently don't want to have anything to do with me. You say it out loud.

It's hard, but it's radical acceptance. It doesn't make it right, but you need to know what is going on that is true because you need to stop pushing on the door. Man, that's hard to say.

But to keep going to the door and knocking, it's not good for your heart, your spirit. And it just shows them that they're right to separate because you're acting like that maybe a toddler who wants another cookie, if you will. So be really careful of that.

So accept what isn't, grieve what is, reject the lies. You didn't do everything wrong. You might've done something wrong, but you didn't do everything wrong.

Embrace the truth. You know, God loves them more than I do. And another thing that I think we do, Jennifer, is we step into all the other roles we have.

I don't say this lightly. I know that you want to maintain your parenting, and we've already said here that you need to turn into a guide, coach, cheerleader, support system. You don't parent in the same way.

You've known that all along, I hope. And you've always, you've always released them from training wheels to a bike with no training wheels that's bigger, and then hand brakes. You've always released them. And driver's license, you've always released them. So this isn't something new. The season feels new, but you walk into that, I think, expectantly.

And then, Jennifer, what other roles do we have, right? You're, you're a spouse. If you're a spouse, prioritize your marriage.

It's the most important thing kids of any age need. Is a mom and a dad to have a dynamic, healthy relationship with Christ and marriage. And then celebrate the other roles you are. Are you a daughter? Are you an aunt? Are you a sister? Are you a choir member? Are you a volunteer in the church youth program? You know, helping your neighbor out who had knee surgery, you're gonna garden for her 'cause she loves her garden and she's upset she can't weed her garden.

Like, look at all the other possibilities. And I'm gonna say one more thing, Jennifer, and the audience can take it or leave it, but I know that in our churches there are many adult children who have no one to support them. Either their parents are deceased, or their parents aren't in the faith, or their parents have abandoned them.

I know of many children in the grandchildren age who would love to have an older woman or an older guy come to a piano recital or come to a Christian school grandparent day because, again, their grandparents aren't available to them. And you and I know that's not the same as pouring out love on family, but all this love that you have that God's given you, I don't want you to just hoard it and not use it because you can't use it on the one person that you think you have to use it on, but there's all these other people.

I hope that comes across right. Our churches are full of broken people that we can love well.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, amen. Well, they are our larger family. And yes, just because the relationship may be cut off doesn't mean you're cut off from other relationships.

Yeah, and that's such a good word, Dr. Kathy. Listen, I am so— Oh gosh, I'm so deeply grateful. This to me feels like so intensely practical for the parent who's dealing with this kind of stuff, but also very comforting.

I mean, I think sometimes a parent might be afraid— well, I don't want to hear what I did wrong. I know I did it wrong. And what I hear you saying is, listen, let's just live where we are.

Let me comfort you in your loss, but let me give you tools to make the best of what you got going on. And I, I just so appreciate that as a sister in Christ. So I'm highly recommending the book.

I'm gonna make sure we link it on the show notes so everyone can get it. But we're going to get to our last question here, okay?

So gosh, I know this kind of conversation has really stirred up some feelings and some thoughts for some people, okay? So what would you say to the parents— and I know we got a lot of moms listening— what would you say to the mom who feels discouraged, or maybe she's frustrated, and let's be honest, she could even just be plain angry because their relationship with their adult kids is not what they thought it would be.

Dr. Kathy Koch: Right. Feel the feelings. Certainly don't live in denial. Don't run from them. That's only going to make it worse. So feel the feelings, and yet don't get stuck in the feelings.

Again, look up. I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but look to God to solve the problems and your needs. Turn to Scripture, personalize it, pray with your children and grandchildren's names in the verses.

Look for small growth and celebrate it. And take care of yourself, you know, take care of yourself. Sleep, eat well, be nourished in the Word of God, which of course, Jennifer, you're such a fan of, love your teaching.

We need to make sure that we understand that we are complete in Christ and not just in this one relationship, because that's what I've seen. The problem really gets big when they feel like they've lost everything, and it might feel like you have, but you haven't.

And I say that with respect and with hope, because God is a really big God who loves you more. And I would love you to turn to him.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, that was some good stuff. We're to feel the feelings, not run from those feelings, but we're also not going to get stuck there, my friends. We are going to look to God to solve the problems we face.

And I loved how Dr. Kathy encouraged us, personalize scripture. Like put the name of that person you love right there, smack dab inside that scripture verse so that you can pray it personally over that person you love. And can we be honest?

I thought it was super important that she reminded us of the importance of taking care of ourselves. Yeah, you need to take care of yourself, my friend. And remember, God loves those children of yours. He loves them more than you do, and he loves you more than you can even imagine. So rest, rest in his love. He's got your kids, he's got you, he's got all your people.

All right, my friend, I hope you have a really good week. Way to grow. See you next week.