Can I Stop Being a Control Freak Mom? With Crystal Paine [Episode 150]

Stop Being a Control Freak Mom

GIVEAWAY ALERT: You can win the book Love-Centered Parenting by this week’s podcast guest. Keep reading to find out how!

Let’s face it, there’s so much we can’t control when it comes to parenting, right? And yet, lots of us try to control so much of our kids’ lives—what they do, who they become, and the choices they make. But when the challenges of parenting become too difficult, we’re clueless of what to do because there’s no manual to follow.

That’s where Crystal Paine found herself in her parenting journey.

After discovering her child was a bully, was being expelled from school, and was depressed and suicidal, she was forced to dig in and question her parenting philosophy. And in doing so, it transformed her relationships with God and her whole family.

Crystal is the founder of, host of The Crystal Paine Show podcast, New York Times bestselling author of Say Goodbye to Survival Mode, and author of Money-Making Mom. She lives with her husband and kids in the Nashville, Tennessee area where she is involved in her local church and is an advocate of foster care.

Whether you consider yourself to be a control freak mom or not, this conversation is for you! Crystal joins us on the 4:13 Podcast and talks about four choices you can control that will help you make a parenting shift. And what you can control might surprise you!

You’ll find her wisdom applies far beyond parenting, and to every relationship we have.

Jennifer’s Highlights and Take-Aways

Crystal began by describing her all-time parenting low which started her love-centered parenting journey. After learning her child was suicidal, she felt helpless and lonely and desperate.

But in that place, she said, “God, You are all I have” and she felt Him assure her, “But I am all you need. I love you and see you, and I am with you and will not leave you.” In the months to come, God was faithful to take her through it one step at a time.

At one point, her child’s therapist said to her, ”You are trying so hard to fix your child. What would it look like for you to just love them and walk with them?”

It was then that she realized she had to relearn how to parent, and in the process, she learned what it meant to “live as loved.”

Living as Loved

Based on the therapist’s question, Crystal began to pay attention to her replies to her kids. She noticed she swooped in to fix it or problem-solve, or possibly shut it down or preach a sermon. She spent so much time correcting her kids and very little time connecting with her kids.

After asking herself, “Why am I working so hard to make sure my kids do the right thing?” she discovered she was more focused on her reputation than her relationship with them.

Like many others, she had created an idealistic view of what it means to be a good mom, and she was afraid of not measuring up to that standard. She believed it was only when she met that standard that she was worthy of God’s love.

But the three words God used to help Crystal were “live as loved.” If she lived as she was loved—truly loved as God loves her just as she is—what would that look like? What would it look like for her to live out of that same kind of love to her kids?

Let Go of Lies

She also began to realize that she lived under lies and believed them to be true. Lies that told her she wasn’t good enough or that she was a failure as a mom. And “if you believe a lie long enough, it becomes your truth,” Crystal said.

But as she dug into God’s word, she began to separate the truth from the lies.

When the lie popped into her head, she would say out loud,” That’s a lie!” and would nix the negative narrative by replacing that lie with the truth.

This practice changed her entire world.

“You have to rewire your brain by cramming so much truth in there that there isn’t room for the lies,” Crystal said.

If you struggle with this, begin by paying attention to what you’re saying to yourself over the next 24 hours. You need to recognize it in order to replace it, so pay close attention to what is taking up residence in your head.

If you’re having trouble separating the truth from the lies, ask for help. A friend or spouse can give you perspective and help filter out the lies. Tell them what you’re thinking and ask, “Is this true?”

Most importantly, pay attention to what God’s Word says about you. Write those verses down and put them on your mirror, phone, fridge—anywhere that will serve as a constant reminder of the truth.

Then make this a habit. Recognize the lies, call them out, replace them with truth, and experience the freedom within that truth.

The Four Choices

Crystal asked her social media audience to fill in the blank: “My job as a parent is to ____.”

What’s interesting is that most answers she received were things we have no control over, like getting our kids to love Jesus, make good choices, be successful, and develop great character.

But Crystal explained that we can’t control our kids’ choices! We can model, nurture, help and train, but ultimately their choices aren’t up to us. The only choices we can control are our own. As a parent we can choose to:

1. Lean in and love
2. Listen well
3. Lead with humility
4. Let go (or learn to let go)

These choices don’t depend on your child’s behavior; they are choices you can own.

And it’s never too late to parent in this way; this is just as impactful as you relate to your adult children. Crystal reminded us that “Change is always possible. Relationships can always be healed. As long as someone is breathing, there is always hope.”

So, remember that whatever you face in your relationships, you can trust God to help you with every choice you make because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength.

BONUS: Crystal Paine joins me at Fresh Grounded Faith

Hey, 4:13ers! If you enjoyed listening to Crystal on this podcast, here’s a little something extra! Crystal was my guest at Fresh Grounded Faith in Chino, California and Oswego, Illinois. Check out the highlights of our time together:

FGF Highlights, Chino, CA – Despair is Going Down and Hope Is on the Rise
FGF Highlights, Oswego, IL – God Met Us “Little People”

Related Resources


Books & Bible Studies by Jennifer Rothschild

More from Crystal Paine

Stay Connected

Episode Transcript


4:13 Podcast: Can I Stop Being a Control Freak Mom? With Crystal Paine [Episode 150]

Jennifer Rothschild: This is some good stuff today, 4:13ers. Today, author and podcaster Crystal Paine -- you know her as the Money Saving Mom -- shares candidly about the day she found out that her child was a bully, was being expelled from school, and was depressed and suicidal. Sitting in an emergency room with her husband and her child, it felt like the world was crumbling around her. Maybe you've been there. Well, that experience, it was exactly what she needed to dig in and begin to transform her parenting philosophy. And in doing so, it transformed her relationships with God and her whole family, too. So let's face it, there's so much that we cannot control when it comes to parenting, and actually with all of our relationships. But on this episode, Crystal will give you four choices that you can control that will help you make a shift. And you know what else you'll get? Hope. Yep. So let's get this started.

K.C. Wright: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. Now your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, hey, everybody. That was K.C., my seeing eye guy. It's just two friends, one topic, and zero stress. And our goal is just to help you be and do more than you even feel capable of as you live this "I can" life along with us. And I got to say, today's conversation is so vulnerable, so good, so life giving, and it reminded me of my most questionable parenting moment. Now, I will say, my husband instigated it, not me. But, of course, I was complicit because I wore the wedding band. But, K.C., it was when our son Clayton was in, oh, maybe seventh grade. And you know what? This still haunts him. None of us are sure it was handled well --

K.C. Wright: Oh, no.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- but we did the best we could at the moment. You know, that's really what we do. OK, so it was his birthday party and he had all these junior high boys over for a sleepover. OK? Now, that right there you know is a problem. But before the sleepover, we took them to the mall, we had pizza. We took them to this arcade. And at this arcade, a bunch of them got prizes for their games, and the price was Slime --

K.C. Wright: OK.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- green Slime.

K.C. Wright: Yes, yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: You might know where this might be going.

K.C. Wright: Uh-huh.

Jennifer Rothschild: OK. So we make popcorn, we give them Cokes, we put them down in the basement with video games, we closed the door, we go to bed. When we wake up, Phil goes down that morning to feed everybody breakfast and there is green slime everywhere.

K.C. Wright: Of course there is.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is dripping from the mantle of the fireplace, it's all stuck to the front of the microwave. It's up on the light fixtures, it's matted in the carpet. It's in boys' hair. I mean, everywhere. Well, Phil was not very happy. And so Phil wakes up all these boys -- and they were supposed to have a basketball game that morning after breakfast. And so Phil says to the boys, "I'm feeding you a lot of protein because instead of playing basketball, you guys are all going to wash my van. Because that's what I was going to be doing this morning, but now I have to clean up Slime from the carpet." OK, so here's Clayton. "No, Dad, don't do that to my friends."

K.C. Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, "I'll do it. Don't do it to my friends." Nope. "Everybody get upstairs." And so these little hooligans, with their buckets and cloths, head up to the van, and Phil starts them washing the vehicle. Well, Clayton was furious with us. Phil cleans the whole basement, you know. And Clayton was just so mortified and furious. And all the parents come and they pick up their little deviants and take them home after washing the van. And the parents didn't seem to think it was a big deal. They all thought it was funny. But to this day it comes up probably once a year at one of our dinner conversations. I mean, Clayton still believes that we should not have had his friends do that -- him, but not his friends -- which I kind of agree. But here's the thing. When you're in the midst of parenting, you're just doing your best.

K.C. Wright: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: You can't control everything, so, you know, you just try your best. And so I think that's going to be -- one of the things you're going to hear in this conversation with Crystal is there do come these moments -- and hers was a lot worse than the Slime-infested basement, OK -- when you just realize, OK, I got to let go, I got to trust God. And really, it's those moments that can be the most beneficial for us as parents.

K.C. Wright: That's right. Crystal Paine is the founder of She's the host of the Crystal Paine Show Podcast, New York Times best-selling author of "Say Goodbye to Survival Mode" and author of "Money Making Mom." She lives with her husband and kids in the Nashville, Tennessee, area where she is involved in her local church. She's also an advocate for foster care and she loves finding great deals at the grocery store. And finally, she's constantly trying to read too many books at one time.

Jennifer Rothschild: My kind of girl.

K.C. Wright: Boy, can we relate.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

K.C. Wright: She's our kind of girl, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

K.C. Wright: You're going to get so much from this conversation about her book "Love-Centered Parenting." So lean in, listen in to Crystal and Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: So, Crystal, you open your book in the principal's office. And oh, my goodness, you are, like, experiencing something that no parent wants to go through. So tell us what happened and how that impacted, you know, the next day, you know, just how the next 24 hours unfolded.

Crystal Paine: Yes. So my kids were going to this little Christian school. And we pulled up that morning, my husband was dropping them off, and he comes and he says, "So I just talked to the principal, and he needs to meet with you and me and our child this afternoon." And that always just -- you're like, something's not OK. And we really racked our brain to try to figure out what is this. Like, what happened? And we couldn't come up with anything. And so then as parents, then you feel really bad. Like, what did we miss? And so we show up to the principal's office and he tells us what had gone on the day before. And our child had done something really serious that had broken their school's code of conduct and they were going to need to take action and different measures to just rectify that. And we were just blindsided. And our child, as a result of this, just kind of spun out of control, because then all sorts of things came to light. And we found out that lots of things had been happening over the last few months, and we were just -- hadn't seen it and hadn't seen it coming. And so as a parent, when your child is really, really struggling and you just feel like, I don't know what to do. Something is really wrong, they really need help, but what do I do? This child then -- just had always experienced some anxiety, but just -- it got really bad and then there was depression and then -- I talk about, in the beginning of the book, walking into the E.R. and having to say, "My child's suicidal." And it's that day that you never would have envisioned when you're holding your sweet, precious baby when they're little.

Jennifer Rothschild: No. Well, and when you said the word "blindsided," that's exactly what it had to have felt like. And I know lots of women right now, especially moms, are listening and have experienced that, too. And I appreciate you're being vague to protect your child as far as gender and all, but can you give us a general age that this child was when this happened? I mean, are we talking six years old or twelve years old? What age range?

Crystal Paine: Pre-teen age.

Jennifer Rothschild: Pre-teen. OK. Because I know a lot of us have had experiences with teenagers that they can relate, we can relate. So here you are in the emergency room. You say it's an all-time parenting low. I mean, of course it would be. And so what happened there in that emergency room that started this journey of what you call love-centered parenting?

Crystal Paine: So I really felt so desperate. I can't remember a time of just feeling such desperation before the Lord, because I just felt like I don't know what to do. And we had tried -- over the course of the last few days, since this had all gone down, we tried lots of different things. We tried to get in with counselors and therapists, and everyone was either full or they would say to us, "I'm sorry, this is a really severe case because of what's going on and, you know, we can't take this." And so that is -- you just feel so lonely. And so in the emergency room, they'd taken my child's clothes and their shoes and everything away from them, and they're just sitting there in this gown, and they bring someone in to watch them. And as a mom, I just felt like, God, I don't know what to do. I don't -- there's no manual that says, here's the next step or here's how to help your child. And I feel so lonely and desperate. But it was in that place of me saying, God, you're all I have. Everything -- my reputation is gone because, you know, this has not been a good past few days and a lot of people now know, and it just -- it was like he was saying, But I'm all you need. And I love you and I see you and I'm with you and I will not leave you. And I can just attest, looking back, he was so faithful. And even in the months and -- you know, weeks and months to come when things were really hard and there was so much therapy and doctor's appointments and just trying to figure out how to help our child, God was so faithful to just lead us one little step at a time.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, there's some people who need to hear right now that they're not alone. What you're describing is a valley none of us ever expect to go through and would totally dread. But you're saying your shepherd was with you, you were not alone in that valley. And I know, Crystal -- you know, when you write it in a book, it's encapsulated in word count and chapters. But this, this was something that you lived with every second. You closed your eyes at night and you felt it for months and months and months. And I can only imagine the impact that has on your soul. And so you talk about in the book how you had to kind of -- you know, in the process of all this, you had to relearn how to parent. But as you're doing that, you realized you had to work on yourself too. Or on yourself even first. So what did that look like for you? And I had -- I was wondering because I had heard you talk about this. You were with a fellow speaker at one point, and she said three little words to you, like in a tweet. And I'm wondering how that might have impacted this new journey as you were working on yourself in this area.

Crystal Paine: Yes. So when we started, we finally were able to get our child into therapy, and we sat across from the therapist in the initial meeting and I said to her, I said, "If there is anything that I can do or change or do differently, would you please let me know, because I just want to help my child." And a few weeks later, she called me back in, after they'd had numerous therapy sessions, and she said to me, she said, "I really feel like you are trying so hard to fix your child. What would it look like to just love your child and walk with them?" And I started paying attention over the next few days to my reactions and my responses, and I realized that when something was going wrong, I would just swoop in and try to fix and solve. I'm a problem solver. And so I would shut it down or I'd preach a sermon or I'd try to tie it up with a bow or somehow fix it, and I was spending so much time correcting my kids and very little time actually connecting with them. And as I dug even deeper into where is this coming from, why am I working so hard to bubble wrap and micromanage and overprotect my kids and just make sure that they do the right thing, and I realized that I was really focused on my reputation. I was parenting from a place of caring about my reputation much more than my relationship with my kids, and I had kind of created this idealistic view of how I was supposed to be as a mom, and what a good mom was, and I was trying to achieve that and attain that. In the process I was feeling like I needed to be a good mom in order to earn God's love, and so I was working so hard and carrying so much stress and carrying such a burden of feeling like I needed to live up to this standard. And it was around this time that God just was gently just putting these things in my path, and one of those was -- I had been at this conference and I was just on Twitter talking with one of the other speakers, and she said to me, when she signed off our conversation, "Live as loved." A little phrase. But I really sat with that and I thought, what does that actually mean? What would that mean for me to actually believe that and live as loved? And then a little while later I was listening to a podcast episode on the Trim Healthy Mama Podcast, and they had a guest on and she said she was working on the negative narrative in her head and she started asking herself this question: "How would loved me live? What would loved me do?" And I started to think, what would it be like to actually believe that I was wholeheartedly loved, by the Creator of the universe, exactly for who I am? What would it look like for me to live out of that love, not only to my kids, but in every area of my life? And I realized that I'd spent so long living under lies and letting those lies be the labels that I led with, and so I didn't even know what the truth was. Because if you believe a lie for long enough, it becomes your truth. And so I had believed I'm not enough, or I'm a disappointment to those closest to me, or I'm a failure as a mom, and I'd let those words become my labels. And so I started to dig into how would loved me act, what would loved me do, and I started replacing those lies with the truth of what God says about me in his Word. And I would actually physically call it out and say, That's a lie. If I would think I'm a failure as a mom, I'd say, That's a lie. And then I had truths that I had written on pieces of paper, and I would put them places so that I could see them so I could, you know, quickly claim the truth of who I am in Christ. He sees me as beautiful and redeemed and loved and forgiven and chosen. And he has given me this child, these children to love. And he loves them even more than I do and he can give me everything that I need to love them well. And so to continue to nix that negative narrative by replacing lies with truth and doing it over and over and over and over. It's not an overnight process, but for me, just sticking with it consistently, even when I didn't feel like it, even when I felt like, actually I think that's true. But just know what does the Word of God say, and that's how you rewire your brain by cramming so much truth in there that there's not space for the lies to take up residence. And this truly, when I started to claim hold of this and let it sink down deep into my heart, it just -- it changed my entire world.

Jennifer Rothschild: So there's women listening right now who are like, oh, man, I get that, because I have so many lies crammed in my brain, there's no room for truth. So is what I hear you saying, Crystal, then in order to kind of disassemble the lies, you had to call them out constantly in real time, call them out. But then you can't just leave them hanging there, you literally had to replace them with a truthful phrase. So how would you help women who are like, OK, but I'm so overwhelmed. Just give me one thing I can do to help start this process. How would you coach them to start this process?

Crystal Paine: I would challenge you over the next 24hours, pay attention to the words that are in your head and what you're saying about yourself. This is not going to take you any extra time. It's not another to do on your list other than just pay attention. Start paying attention to what you're allowing to take up residence in your head and the words that you're saying about yourself. So you look in the mirror. Are you noticing your wrinkles? Are you saying, Oh, man, if I could just lose five pounds? Are you saying to your kids, Why can we not get this house organized? What is wrong with us? Or, Why are we the only family that's always late? You know, these things that we say over and over and over again, that it's like we're just projecting negativity on us. Or it goes even deeper. Are you allowing to fester in your head, I'm a failure. I'm the only one who has kids who do this. I'm the only one who can't get my act together. I'm such a disappointment to people, or, I failed yet again. And just paying attention over the next 24 hours, that's the first step. Because you have to recognize it in order to be able to replace it. And then I would say the next day start challenging yourself when you hear something in your head that sounds negative, that maybe you still believe is truth. But would you allow your child to say that? Would you allow someone to say that about someone you love? If not, then why not? And then start saying, OK, what is actually truth here? And you might need to call in some help. You might need to ask your spouse or a good friend, someone who's going to speak life into you. And you might say, you know, I've been thinking this a lot and I think it's truth. Could you give me, you know, your perspective. Is this true? And then really going to the Word of God. And I would challenge you to actually pay attention to what God's Word says about you. I started writing things down, writing verses down of what God says about me as a child of God, who am I in Christ. And put those on your bathroom mirror, on your refrigerator, on your lock screen on your phone, wherever you're going to see them very often to be reminded of the truth. And so then the more that you can recognize the lies and call them out as lies and then replace them with truth, and continue to do this over and over and over again, that is how you change your life.

Jennifer Rothschild: You're speaking my language. I actually wrote a book, Crystal, about what I call our thought closets and how we're going to wardrobe our lives with what we have put in our thought closet. So what you're describing is filling that thought closet with truth. So you're going to be clothed with kindness, with confidence, with everything we want to show our children, everything we want to be, but everything we also want to project upon our families. And, you know, what it does is -- I look at my life as a mom, I can look at different friends' lives, and I can see how sometimes I let my insecurity be the mom, instead of my kindness or the confidence I have in Christ. We do it inadvertently. And so what you're describing, it not only sets us free, but it sets our kids free and our family free to live the kind of life that God designed for each of us. And I think we all need to be reminded of it. Because here's the thing. We want to do the right thing by our kids, you know? I mean, that's why we have rules, that's why we have boundaries. But in your book, you talk about the difference between rules-based parenting versus relationship-based parenting. So I want you to kind of give us a picture of what you mean by that.

Crystal Paine: I think it's so easy for us to focus on results. We see our job performance on the line with our kids. When I was writing this book, I actually asked on Instagram -- I'm the Money Saving Mom on Instagram, and I asked my followers to answer this question. I said, Fill in the blank. My job as a parent is to blank. It was fascinating because I got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of responses, and I would say 98 to 99 percent of the responses were things that we actually ultimately have no control over as a parent. For instance, a lot of the responses would be things like, I want my kids to love Jesus and I want them to go to heaven someday and I want them to make good choices and I want them to be successful in life, or I want to raise kids who have great character and a strong work ethic. And, yes, those are good things and, yes, we can model for our kids and we can nurture and help and train and all of those things. But ultimately, at the end of the day we can't control our kids' choices. And I think as parents, we take such a burden on ourselves of feeling like the end result is what it's all about, instead of walking in the moment and loving them right where they're at. And we're so focused on fear of the future that we can't live in the present, and we're so parenting out of a place of fear or a place of results instead of what does it look like to just walk with my child. Like the therapist said to me, you're trying so hard to fix your child. What does it look like to walk with them? And so in the book I really challenge parents to make four choices. And these are things that you have control over by the grace of God. And so I encourage you to lean in and love, I encourage you to listen well, I encourage you to lead with humility, and I encourage you to let go. Those are things that are not dependent upon what your child does, their choices, their behavior. They are totally just dependent upon what you can do and what you can own. And so I challenge parents -- yes, we want to pray for our kids and have -- you know, dream big dreams and have great ambition for them. I'm not saying, you know, we'll just like ^ whatever. But ultimately let's focus on what we can do and let's make sure that our heart is parenting from the space of understanding how much we are wholeheartedly loved by our Creator and then living as loved to our kids and walking with them on a daily basis. For instance, just yesterday something happened with one of my kids and I did not handle it well. And I was thinking of the future and I was playing out the future in my head of if you make this choice -- I literally said to them, If you make this choice, this is a slippery slope that's going to lead you. And so instead of parenting in that moment out of love and asking them why and sitting with them and really hearing their heart, I just jumped to preaching a sermon to them about how wrong this was. There's a time and place for that. But my heart was in fear. I was fearing the future instead of living in faith and parenting on faith. And I had to go back to my child and ask forgiveness. And I had go back to everyone in my family who heard that conversation and say, I didn't parent from a place of love and trust in the Lord, I was parenting out of fear of the future and out of my own reputation. And so just recognizing this -- and I didn't write this book because I'm over here with it all figured out. I wrote this book because I'm right in the trenches and I need this too. I need to be reminded to lean in and love, to listen well, to lead with humility and to let go.

Jennifer Rothschild: Those four L's that you gave, I appreciated that you alliterated. We will have those on the show notes, because I know there's some women right now who are writing fiercely, quickly trying to get it all down. Don't worry, it will be on the show notes. Because that's some good stuff, Crystal. And, of course, it's all in your book, which I -- I am just thankful for the humility. You know, usually when an author writes a book, it's not because she's got it figured out, it's because that's the book she needs to read. She's in the middle of learning it. And so I'm thankful that that's your posture. It gives greater credibility. And, you know, we mamas, we carry around our invisible pulpits and we're ready to pull it out in a second's notice to preach a sermon. And I thank you for sharing that. The wisest choice is to sit down and listen first and let the child be led by the Holy Spirit to the truth, that you don't really need to preach to them at that point. So I'm going to ask you a last question which, based on your stage of life and where you are in parenting, I understand that this might be harder for you to answer. But I have also already sensed the wisdom of the Holy Spirit in you, and so I would really like you to answer this last question. Is it ever too late? Because we got some mamas who are sitting in an empty nest with nothing but regret. So is it ever too late for love-centered parenting?

Crystal Paine: Like you addressed so clearly, I'm not this expert, and so I -- you know, I hesitate to answer this question because I can't speak to things that I haven't experienced. And that's something that's really important to me, that I only talk about things that I have actually experienced. But from women who I've heard from who got to read the early copies, who are empty nesters, they have told me that it really helped to shape the way that they're approaching interacting with their grown adult children and with their, you know, children's spouses and all of that. And so I think -- I do believe that change is always possible. Relationships can always be healed. As long as someone is breathing, there is always hope.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep, as long as one is breathing, there is always hope. You know, K.C., those four choices that she just shared, those can be a really good starting place no matter where you are in your parenting journey.

K.C. Wright: Yep. And we will have them on the show notes at But let me review them for you one more time just right here. OK? Crystal said that you can, number one, lean in and love. Number two, you can listen well. Number three, you can lead with humility. And here's the last one. Number four, you can let go or you can learn to let go one finger, one choice at a time.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's so true. It's a process. And you can do those things, friends, because 4:13, Philippians 4:13 says that you can.

K.C. Wright: You'll want to get a copy of her book, "Love-Centered Parenting" because it's so practical. And it's a great resource, really. And you can win one right now through Jennifer's Instagram. Go to Instagram, look for Jennifer Rothchild @jenrothschild on Instagram, or you can find a link to her Instagram and the show notes right now at

Jennifer Rothschild: And right there also you'll find my highlights and my takeaways from our conversation, plus links to follow Crystal and get connected with all sorts of helpful resources. So until next week, our people, remember you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength? I can.

K.C. Wright: I can.

Jennifer Rothschild and K.C. Wright: And you can.

K.C. Wright: You sure enough can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: And listen, if you have had a parenting fail --

Jennifer Rothschild: Welcome to the human race.

K.C. Wright: Welcome. OK? We all have. Shame off you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Shame off you

K.C. Wright: OK? God's mercy's new --

Jennifer Rothschild: Every morning.

K.C. Wright: -- because we used up all of yesterday's.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, we did.

K.C. Wright: OK, you just keep swimming.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Keep swimming, keep swimming.


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