4:13 Podcast: Spill the Beans LIVE with Lisa Whelchel at Fresh Grounded Faith St. Louis, MO [Episode 189]

Jennifer Rothschild: Pack your bags, 4:13ers. We are going to St. Louis for a Fresh Grounded Faith conference with former Facts of Life actress Lisa Welchel. She's going to take you way back to when she was a Mouseketeer, and she's even going to break into an impromptu ventriloquism bit from her Disney days. She's going to talk about what it was like to be on Survivor and how grace can totally change your life. I'll share about the impact of doubt and fear on our faith, my depression, and how I raised my boys with being blind. But that is not all, though. Former lead singer of New Song, Michael O'Brien, is with us, too, and he's going to get real honest about leaving his life of drugs and how he stayed clean in those early days. He's even going to break out in song. You do not want to miss this one because these are some rare and fine beans that we are spilling today. So, K.C., let's do it.

K.C. Wright: Let's go. Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. Now, your host and my soul sister, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hello. We are back in the podcast closet and we are happy that you are here with us wherever you are today. If you're driving in your car, if you're hanging out at your house, if you're going for a walk, thanks for letting us join you.

K.C. Wright: Yes. Thank you.

Jennifer Rothschild: I am Jennifer, here to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you live the "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. It is Christ's power in you that equips you and enables you to be everything he has created you to be, so you follow that power in you. Let his strength be your strength.

We had a really good conversation last week, we're going to have a really good conversation this week. I am learning so much and getting so much out of this.

K.C. Wright: Oh, my goodness. And during your intro, Jennifer, I -- I always live with soundtracks in my mind. Life is better when you sing it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

K.C. Wright: And you were talking about Lisa Welchel coming on, and you're dropping -- you know, she was a Mouseketeer, so I've got (singing) M-i-c-k-e --

Jennifer Rothschild: (Singing) K-e-y. Yes.

K.C. Wright: And then you're like Facts of Life.

Jennifer and K.C.: (Singing) You take the good, you take the bad --

K.C. Wright: (Singing) -- you take them both and there you have The Facts of Life --

Jennifer Rothschild: (Singing) -- The Facts of Life.

K.C. Wright: Does Survivor have a theme song?

Jennifer Rothschild: I don't know.

K.C. Wright: I don't think so.

Jennifer Rothschild: It does, it just sounds very, like, ominous.

K.C. Wright: (Singing) I'm a survivor, nah nah nah nah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: I don't know. Anyway...

But last week we were talking about overhearing a phone conversation or something?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah. Jackie Hill Perry had left her phone in the green room with me and Jen Wilkin, yeah.

K.C. Wright: Well, one time -- it's a long story, but we don't have the time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, give us the highlights anyway.

K.C. Wright: Okay. I was in a room with Brad Pitt's mom.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oooo.

K.C. Wright: And by the way, she is the sweetest gal.

Jennifer Rothschild: She is.

K.C. Wright: I adore her.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

K.C. Wright: She is so sweet and she loves Jesus with all her heart. Love her.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, she's all lovely woman.

K.C. Wright: But her cell phone was there, she had laid it down, and Angelina Jolie was calling. The phone said, "Angie."

Jennifer Rothschild: No way.

K.C. Wright: And she answered and she's like, "Well, Angie, I can do that." And I'm standing in the corner just going, "Act cool, act cool, act cool." And I had just seen Maleficent, you know, with my daughter, and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, Angelina Jolie is on the phone talking to" --

Jennifer Rothschild: Her mother-in-law.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And there you are.

K.C. Wright: There I was.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh. You are so close to greatness.

K.C. Wright: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Uh-huh.

K.C. Wright: Anyway, thanks for listening.

Jennifer Rothschild: And that was, like, normal for them. I know, we just don't think of celebrities having normal lives.

K.C. Wright: Right. Well, you hang out with this sweet lady and she's just so sweet, again. And then you go to your local Walmart and she's on the cover of People magazine --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Agree.

K.C. Wright: -- and you're like, wow, this is so -- the world is so small.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you know what's sweet about that story, too, K.C., is that's how I feel about Lisa Welchel.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: I remember when I first met her and I thought, "Oh, she has no idea she's famous." She didn't act like it, she didn't -- and then, of course, when I first met her, all I could think of is, oh, my gosh, you're Blair. Well, of course, I don't think that anymore --

K.C. Wright: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- she's completely Lisa. And she's a delight. In fact, this whole spill the beans conversation from this Fresh Grounded Faith conference in St. Louis was really, really good. I'm a big fan of Michael O'Brien and Lisa Welchel, so you're going to enjoy both of them today.

K.C. Wright: Fresh Grounded Faith conferences are all around the country. And you need to come to one. Okay? Go to freshgroundedfaith.com to find the tour dates. But in the meantime, we will bring this part of the conference to you. So are you ready? Here is Lisa Welchel -- yes, I had a crush on her when I was a teenager -- and Michael O'Brien, man of God; and our precious Jennifer. They are in St. Louis answering audience questions. This is my favorite part of a Fresh Grounded Faith conference. And so they're spilling the beans and we get to listen. It's going to be so good. Are you ready? Here we go.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So, Michael, let's go for it.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, first one's to you, Jennifer. "Love your hair. Do you have thick or thin hair? And can I have a picture of your hair cut for my hairdresser?"

Jennifer Rothschild: That is hilarious. Y'all, my hair is so thick. And, yes, whoever you are, I'll be signing books afterwards and you can just come up and take pictures of my head. Right?

Lisa Welchel: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know what? Yesterday I was getting ready to leave for the conference --

Lisa Welchel: I had a horse that felt like this.

Jennifer Rothschild: Exactly. It is.

Lisa Welchel: You know, they have a shampoo you can get called, like, Mane Tail. I'm serious.

Jennifer Rothschild: Do you know, I use a --

Lisa Welchel: My son has it.

Jennifer Rothschild: I use a product called Super Skinny. That's how...

Lisa Welchel: Oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: But yesterday --

Lisa Welchel: Can you wash your whole body in it?

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, right? Don't you wish?

Yesterday I'm getting ready for last night and Phil was checking my makeup. That's what he does. He's so kind. And then I said, "Oh, my gosh, I forgot to do my hair," and I went (demonstrating). "Is it done?" And he goes, "Yep," and that was it.

Lisa Welchel: Nice.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

All right. What else you got, Michael?

Michael O'Brien: All right, so -- this is for me, actually. "After being saved, how did you deal with the longing, desire, or craving for the alcohol or drugs to get through the low times, and how do you break through the old ways with your unsaved friends and be able to witness to them?" Okay. The greatest thing I could say in this situation is bad company corrupts good morals. This is what the Word teaches.

So when I was in that situation, to get out of that situation, the Lord put me in a singing group around a bunch of Christians. I no longer had those relationships. Unfortunately, in those types of situations, when you have people who have a huge influence on you -- like, I had a really good buddy who was the one giving me the drugs. Well, I had to just severe that relationship. It's just like not -- I can't even be your friend right now. Now, hopefully -- and matter of fact, he reached out to me on Facebook last year, so I hadn't seen him in 31 years. And he saw, you know, what I'm doing now, and so I'm trying to reach out to him now.

But I would not have been able to do that being so immature in the Lord. I probably would have fallen back. And I think the Lord knew that. So you just have to be wise not to -- I think you do have to change who your friends are. I think it's a definite cut, "I cannot do this. And until I'm really mature in the Lord. I don't think I can even witness to you right now." So that's what I would say.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Michael O'Brien: I don't know if that's...

Jennifer Rothschild: well, and I think it's a difficult -- it's something you just have to be honest with your friends and say, "I love you. It's not a reflection of my love for you. Thank you for being my friend and understanding I need distance to get well." And it's not a -- I've never been in that situation, but I think it has to be so hard because there is a tearing there of true friendships. But at the same time, Michael, you know what I wonder? Does the craving ever go away? Like, if you were in a bar, would it be hard for you?

Michael O'Brien: Okay, I think -- I was never, like, a true alcoholic where -- you know, I have a buddy of mine that was, and he has all the details of the struggles of that. But I will say that I abused it heavily, and the drugs too. And you kind of do go through a -- when you're doing cocaine or something like that, coming off of cocaine is difficult. That's why you want to take more, because you get really bad headaches and -- but I would say that -- I stopped cold turkey. It was like, "No more. I don't want that." I think it's just because of the close calls, almost losing my life. I think that motivated me.

Jennifer Rothschild: It has to be a hard thing. So if that's you and you're in that situation -- I mean, I think your best word, Michael, is surround yourself with people who will make you your best self, who will help you to be strong, who will encourage you to make the choices that you've made, and then just be lovingly honest.

Lisa Welchel: And I think that AA and SA and all those other A's are actually very much what the church is supposed to be --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Just be honest.

Lisa Welchel: -- and a place where you can be honest with your temptations, with your failures without being judged. And they meet in church basements a lot. I wish they would actually come into the sanctuary.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, right?

Michael O'Brien: It's true.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, Lisa, here we go. "What was it like to be a Mouseketeer?" and, "Did you ever meet Annette?"

Lisa Welchel: Yes, I did meet Annette, and she was lovely. And it was really fun being a Mouseketeer, because I was --

Jennifer Rothschild: Which ones were you?

Lisa Welchel: In the 70s.

Jennifer Rothschild: So you weren't the Annette Funicello ones?

Lisa Welchel: No. That was in the 50s. And I wasn't in the 90s where Justin Timberlake and --

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, and you weren't in --

Lisa Welchel: Yeah. We refer to ourselves as the forgotten mice. And actually, one of the Mouseketeers, Julie Piekarski, lives here in St. Louis. And she was also on the first season of Facts of Life, and it was a lot of fun. Got to film at Disneyland before the park opened and ride on giant mouse ears down Main Street, so -- I mean, what's not to love about that?

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you know what I loved when you were a Mouseketeer -- and by the way, when Lisa and I first became friends, he was like, "She was my favorite Mouseketeer." He had such a crush on your little Mouseketeer self.

But I remember when you did the ventriloquist.

Lisa Welchel: Okay. yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Do you think she should do a little ventriloquist?

Lisa Welchel: Jennifer, thank you so much for this.

Jennifer Rothschild: You're welcome. I love you. But you need a dummy.

Lisa Welchel: I do. Will you be that for me?

Jennifer Rothschild: No, I think Michael should.

Lisa Welchel: No, huh-uh. You're the one that brought it up.

Michael O'Brien: I vote Jennifer.

Lisa Welchel: All right. Ready?

Jennifer Rothschild: Ready?

Lisa Welchel: Thank you so much for coming to Fresh Grounded Faith. We loved being with you all weekend.

Jennifer Rothschild: You still got it.

Lisa Welchel: I don't know why I chose to say Fresh Grounded Faith.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, that would be --

Lisa Welchel: F words are not --

Jennifer Rothschild: They're hard.

Lisa Welchel: -- good for a ventriloquist.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. You can't really do that with your lips tight.

Lisa Welchel: No, you can't. Stay away from F words.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, good, I'm glad you're staying away from F words.

Michael O'Brien: All right. So this is to all of us. "Can you be a good Christian and still have doubts and fear of dying? What defines a good Christian?"

Jennifer Rothschild: So I included this question because I want to clarify something. There are no good Christians. There just aren't. He is good. God is good.

Lisa Welchel: I think good Christians are called Pharisees.

Jennifer Rothschild: I think we're honest Christians, right? We're humans, we're flawed, we're faithful, we're saved, but we're not good. And so I understand the nature of the question, but I just want to clarify that. That really goes a lot to what you're saying, you know, if I can check all the boxes, then I'm a good Christian. There's no such thing. There are Christians who are saved by grace. That's us.

Yet at the same time can you be a Christian walking with the Lord, full of faith, and still have doubts? Yes. Can you be a Christian loving Jesus, full of faith, convinced of heaven, and still be afraid to die? Absolutely. Because those are all human emotions that we feel. And we should never shame ourselves for feeling those things. What happens is when we feel doubt or when we feel fear, then we just take it to the Lord honestly and say, "This is how I feel. Please remind me of what I know and help take those emotions and turn them into this guide that will take me to a deeper truth that I can settle on." And you know what? You don't do that just once. You have to do that over and over and over. And it's okay. It really is okay. I'm glad you brought up the question because I think we all struggle with that.

Lisa Welchel: And we can't have faith without doubt, because faith is believing something we can't see. And we are actually putting our certainty on what Jesus has said, but we may not even be able to understand it. And I think the opposite is certainty, and I think certainty is just -- you know, that's when we've usually cut off our brain and our heart in order to feel safe. We don't have to do that.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, we don't, because we are safe.

Lisa Welchel: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: We are.

Michael O'Brien: Some of the greatest minds, some of the greatest theologians that we -- if you go back in history -- had doubts and fears as well. It's just a part of the process, I think. And trusting God --

Jennifer Rothschild: I agree with you.

Michael O'Brien: -- ultimately, so...

Jennifer Rothschild: I agree with you.

And I'll just say one last thing about that, the fear of death. I think that we anticipate and fear the process of death more than death itself, and I think it's important for us as believers to kind of pay attention to that. We fear the uncertainty of the process, not necessarily the final conclusion of death. And so I think if we can take that to the Lord, too, and know he's going to carry us through that, that might help clarify some of our fears.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah. That's good.

All right, Jennifer, this is to you. "Jennifer Rothschild, what's it like raising a child while blind?" and, "You dress very classy. Who gets to pick your outfits?" Wow, it's like two different --

Jennifer Rothschild: I get a two-fer.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: How did I raise my boys? We have two boys. I told you they were born ten years apart. And so when they were old enough to toddle around -- I mean, I was able to change diapers and do all those things. I'll tell you one thing that was really sweet. Clayton -- both of them did this, but our oldest was Clayton. They figured out very quickly that -- like, when I would go to feed Clayton in the high chair, I would literally put the spoon in the baby food and I would hold it toward him and he would come toward me. When his Daddy would feed him, Daddy would put the spoon in and then Clayton would just sit there and wait for it to come to him.

But I would put a jingle bell on the back of their shirts so I knew where they were when they would toddle through the house. And so it was really effective because I got to learn a lot about their personalities, you know. Here's Clayton. He would toddle into a room and no jingle bells at all 'cause he'd be sitting there reading a book for an hour by himself. You know, and then he'd jingle into another room and he'd play with blocks by himself. I mean, I thought this was normal until our second child was born. It was like a sleigh ride from morning till night. Okay?

So anyway, I did find ways to compensate. Phil is a great dad, very hands on. Of course, it was difficult to not be able to drive and do those sort of things, but I have found that God used what I thought really was a deficit. And it still frustrates me that I wasn't able to do certain things for my kids and with my kids, but God has used that in ways I could not have ever imagined. My sons are both so empathetic. Connor is interested in public policy, and he is so very mindful and empathetic of those who don't have it as easy in life. And our oldest son, who's a technology guru, is designing accessibility apps for people with special needs. I mean, they're just -- so it's amazing how -- yeah, what God has done.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, Lisa. "Survivor, glad you did it." I mean -- okay. "Survivor, glad you did it? Would you do it again?"

Lisa Welchel: I would not do it again.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm glad. It was stressful for us to watch you.

Lisa Welchel: Yeah, yeah. No, it was really, really -- as hard as it looks on television, it is a hundred times harder because, I mean, it's real. And am I glad I did it? It really wasn't until a year afterwards that I was glad I did it, it was that hard. It just messed me -- tore me up on the inside. I felt like I'd been drawn and quartered, because there was this -- again, it was that internal conflict. It just was amplified. There was this part of me that wanted to play this game, and I knew to play the game you got to lie, cheat, steal, betray. And I love games, and I'm very competitive, and I thought I could do it, but then I got out there and got afraid. And then I was very aware and afraid that I wasn't going to be a good reflection as a Christian and that I didn't -- and it was harder for me to lie and cheat and steal than I thought it was going to be.

Jennifer Rothschild: And, you know, what's interesting? I'm thinking you're going to say the hardest part was sleeping on the ground, having to use the ocean as my potty, eating bugs. No.

Lisa Welchel: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: You didn't deal with any of that physical stuff, you just dealt with emotional and spiritual.

Lisa Welchel: Yeah, it was emotional. I mean, that stuff was hard, but --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Wow.

Lisa Welchel: You know, I'm not big on showers anyway, so it worked out great.

Jennifer Rothschild: I told you she's not a diva. I told you.

Okay, Michael.

Michael O'Brien: Wow. Okay.

Lisa Welchel: I didn't brush my teeth in 39 days either, or wash my hair.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ugh.

Lisa Welchel: It's awesome.

Michael O'Brien: Praise the Lord.

What is the hardest -- this is to all of us. What is the hardest short-term trial and how did you get through?

Jennifer Rothschild: Your hardest-short term trial and how did you get through? Michael, you want to go first?

Michael O'Brien: I mean, define "short."

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. In light of eternity?

Michael O'Brien: What's a short-term trial? I mean --

Jennifer Rothschild: Maybe just a situation in your life.

Michael O'Brien: You know, I guess in the span of thing of life, of eternity, yeah, the thing that I went through with my wife was probably one of the most difficult things, to know that you're failing as a spiritual leader. And also, you know, my dad was an atheist, so I didn't have anything to learn from him from. And then I'm raising my kids and I'm just trying to just get through for my wife to be happy. So go to counsel -- and I'm not even owning up to my own stuff. And I've talked to you about this, about gifting and callings.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, tell them.

Michael O'Brien: You know, when I said "I do" to my wife, my calling became to love her as Christ loved the church, to lay my life down for her, to wash her in the Word so that she's holy and blameless before the Lord. And my gifting has always been music, you know, since I was probably 12, 13 years old. And I've just had to learn over the years that I don't let my gifting take precedence over my calling. And I think a lot of times we think -- as men especially -- and, women, you need to know this. As men, we think our occupation, our job, is our calling. That's it. You know, we go out and we're making money to -- and that's kind of flipped these days. But the bottom line is that is just a small part when you're -- when you say "I do," your life changes.

And we're thinking about doing this marriage conference, calling it The Dying Marriage Conference, and nobody would ever show up to that, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: No, they wouldn't.

Michael O'Brien: But basically what it is is dying to self. You have to die to yourself daily. And so that has been a trial that I'm still learning. But by God's grace, we can do that, we can love them well. So there's me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Do you have one?

Lisa Welchel: Yeah. I think -- was thinking about that. Once somebody asked me what was the hardest thing I've ever done. And a few years ago, I would have said raising my son Tucker, who has ADD and just a -- I was really trying to be perfect, and that was just not working. And then I would say Survivor.

But when I'm thinking about it now, I really think it really was -- the hardest thing I've ever done was this transition to receiving the grace. I fought it. I just fought it because I was so afraid, because, you know, even that is a death. It's a death to self to receive grace. And it felt like death to me. So I struggled with it for a long time until I really -- I struggled so much, I couldn't -- God won and I lost, and ultimately then found out, oh, actually, that's winning.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right. That's right. That's good.

Mine would have been probably seven to eight years ago. I experienced depression in a way I had never experienced it before. I mean, I was just -- y'all, my maiden name is Jolly. Okay? Happy girl here all the time. And things just started to crumble inside me, and couldn't figure it out. Did all the right things that I thought were the right things, you know, and prayed and journaled and ate better and stopped drinking caffeine, you know, everything you can imagine, and it just didn't get better. In fact, Lisa was a part of this story, too. I -- and so were you.

Michael O'Brien: Uh-huh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, what a nice moment this is for me.

Okay. So I was at a conference and it just kind of all came to a head. I just fell apart on the stage and started crying, and couldn't stop crying, and wept my way through a song I was ending with. (Singing) It is well (sniff, sniff) with my soul. It was awful. Cried through the airport, cried all the way home, cried Sunday, cried Monday.

Lisa and I were talking so much on the phone, and she finally says to me, "You know what? I think you really need to go to the doctor." Because she had been walking this journey with me. "I think you need to go the doctor." Well, Phil had told me that three or four times and I was like, "No, I don't." Lisa says it once and I'm like, "Okay," and I call the doctor.

Anyway, to make a long story short, after visiting the doctor -- she did blood work and tested my saliva and all this stuff. Anyway, I learned that I was in full-blown menopause and did not know it. And I had no dopamine, which your brain needs to function. She even said to me, "I don't know how you're even managing as well as you are." And so it was interesting that -- she said to me, you know, "I want you to take this prescription." I'm just going to be honest with the sisters because we need to get really free in this area. When she said to me, "I think you need to be on this medication," I got to be honest, my first thought was, wait a minute. I can't do that. Depression. I can't go on medication, you know, because I talk about it is well with my soul and -- no, I can't do that.

And she could tell I was hesitating, and she said to me, "Jennifer, if I told you your liver was sick, would you hesitate taking medication?" I said, "Well, no." She said, "Well, your brain is sick and it needs medication." And it was very humbling to me that I had understood a lie prior. So when I really thought -- your brain is an organ and it needs medication and so, of course, I was willing to take the medication. And isn't it funny -- if you follow my ministry at all, I've always sung and talked about it as well with my soul. The medication she prescribed was Wellbutrin, so it was Wellbutrin with my soul.

And the Lord really used it. I mean, it took a few weeks to get me stabilized enough for me to be able to think straight again and to be able to process emotionally and spiritually all the things that had become dismantled. Hard trial, cleansing, cleansing for me, and I'm super grateful.

Michael O'Brien: So this is to me. "Weren't you the guy New Song?" Yes. "Arise My Love?" Yes. "Will you sing it --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Michael O'Brien: -- please."

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Michael O'Brien: No, I'm not going to do the whole song. But I'll do --

Jennifer Rothschild: Just a little bit. Give us just a little.

Michael O'Brien: I'll do the chorus. Do a little something on my voice to make me sound better than I do, okay? A little 'verb or something. Okay. (Singing) Arise, my love

, Arise, my love, The grave no longer

has a hold on you, No more death's sting, No more suffering,

Arise, Arise, my love.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Lisa Welchel: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: Michael, will you just live one day longer than me so you can sing that at my funeral? That's beautiful. Thank you.

Lisa Welchel: Do you sing that to your wife in the morning?

Jennifer Rothschild: Heidi, arise -- that would be awesome.

And the beans are officially spilled for today. Wasn't that some good stuff?

K.C. Wright: It always is. I'm telling you, these Fresh Grounded Faith conferences are legit, they are awesome. The ladies from my church went, and they're still changed.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, thank the Lord.

K.C. Wright: They came back on fire for the Lord. I don't know what goes on there, but something good. Some good God stuff.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

K.C. Wright: We want you to check out more from Lisa Welchel and Michael O'Brien. Lisa has great books. And we'll even link you to her coaching services she offers. Michael's music, as you already heard, is amazing. And we will have links to their books and music right now at 413Podcast.com/189. So go there to get some more inspiration for your heart.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, And check out freshgroundedfaith.com to find a conference near you. It is truly relatable stories and relevant truth for real women. They're all over the country. So you'll find a link on the show notes or you can go straight to freshgroundedfaith.com.

K.C. Wright: Well, we read in the reviews that people feel as if they are listening to their best friends. So how cool is it that now you can go to a Fresh Grounded Faith conference and meet your BFF Jennifer face to face? How cool is that?

Jennifer Rothschild: There you go. It'd be awesome.

K.C. Wright: Until next week, remember, whatever you face, however you feel, you can truly do all things through Christ who strengthens you. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

K.C. Wright: I just want to bring this back to the forefront of your mind. Okay? The Mickey -- the Mouseketeers?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: Okay. They had a jingle.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: Okay. Facts of Life, jingle.

Jennifer Rothschild: Jingle.

K.C. Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: 4:13?

K.C. Wright: Listen, it's 2022.

Jennifer Rothschild: We still don't have a jingle.

K.C. Wright: Where's the jingle?

Jennifer Rothschild: Where are our 4:13 musicians out there who can write us a jingle?

K.C. Wright: You know every musician on the planet.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, well...

K.C. Wright: You actually sing and play the piano yourself.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. But that does not mean I am a jingle writer.

K.C. Wright: Can you take a pause from writing --

Jennifer Rothschild: To write a jingle?

K.C. Wright: -- to just write a jingle?

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, the things that are the shortest are the hardest to write.