4:13 Podcast: Can I Believe Nothing Is Impossible With God? With Shannon Bream [Episode 393]

Shannon Bream: I learned so much from it because all I had was the Lord at that darkest valley. And I try to describe to people -- it's bittersweet. Like, I wouldn't have chosen this, I didn't want to walk through that valley, I wanted to get out of it as quickly as possible, but the closeness and the realness and the depth of my relationship with him was a blessing from this.

And it was different. It was a different way than learning when you're on the mountaintops and when things are good. And like I said, I wouldn't have chosen it, but I learned so much of his presence and of his realness and empathy for other people with whatever they're struggling with.

Jennifer Rothschild: Shannon Bream, the number one New York Times bestselling author of "The Women of the Bible Speak," is with us today, and she has got just what you need if you are facing something that feels impossible. So on today's episode, Shannon is going to chronicle some very unlikely biblical heroes, from Jonah, who ran away from his mission; to Elijah, who went from miracles to a flat-out meltdown; and to Peter, the impulsive fisherman who became a rock of our faith.

And even better, Shannon herself is going to share her own impossible, and, my friend, you are going to be blown away by God's grace and that woman's perseverance. This conversation is going to comfort you, inspire you, and equip you for all that you face, because the truth is, nothing is impossible with God.

So, KC, let's do it.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, this is Jennifer. And that was KC Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. And I always say that it's two friends and one topic and zero stress.

But full disclaimer, right now it's one friend. KC's not here. I used the recording of his voice, my friends, because he woke up with a head cold. And he didn't want to get me sick, because we're stuck in the closet, and also because, you know, he probably wouldn't have sounded like his normal self.

But anyway, so he's not here, so it's just us, you and me with one topic. And, yes, there will be zero stress because, oh, my goodness, today's conversation, Shannon Bream.

Now, some of you may know who she is because you might watch Fox News Sunday Morning. Phil and I do before we head off to church. I just love Shannon because she's so balanced. She's got such kindness about her, such discretion. And, yeah, let's just be honest, the woman is brilliant.

But I got to meet her -- and I'll mention this in the conversation in a minute -- at the College of the Ozarks, because she was the commencement speaker. And she was amazing. And I received an award, so we had an opportunity before the event started to just kind of connect, and we found out we both lived in Tallahassee, Florida. She's just so down to earth, so I can't wait for you to hear from our sister.

But I wanted you to also know that I am hitting the road soon this month and next month for the Hope of Heaven Tour -- we've already told you a little bit about it -- with Kelly Minter in March and Point of Grace in April. So it's going to be in eight different cities. That means there's a good chance it's going to be near you, and I don't want you to miss it. So you'll want to check it out on the Show Notes later, or you can just Google my name and Hope of Heaven Tour.

All right. Now, since KC's not here, I'm going to try my very best to introduce Shannon as well as I can. And I can't wait for you to hear this conversation.

So Shannon Bream serves as the anchor of Fox News Sunday, and she is the author of the number one New York Times bestseller, "The Women of the Bible Speak." Shannon also serves as the Chief Legal Correspondent for her network, and she is the host of the Livin' The Bream Podcast, which if you haven't heard, you must check it out. She's married to Sheldon, who I got to meet, and he is an amazing man, and they have a cute little dog named Biscuit.

All right, my people, you are going to love this conversation, so settle in and listen to Shannon.

All right, Shannon. I got a little bit of an opportunity to get to know you just a little bit at the College of Ozarks back in the fall. It was such a treat. And so when I had this opportunity, I could not wait to talk to you. I can't wait for my 4:13ers to get to meet you. Now, I know I already gave you, like, your fancy intro, but this is going to be a sister conversation, and so it's just going to be -- we're going to talk about your book, which is entitled "Nothing Is Impossible with God."

But before we get there, I just got to tell you, I cannot help but think of, like, an impossible situation that I know you face. Now, people may not know that you really endured this difficult and painful eye condition. So I want us to start there. I want you to take us there and then talk about how that season either shaped or shook your faith.

Shannon Bream: Oh, boy, I would say both for sure. I was around my 40th birthday. And I've always had vision trouble. I was the little kid with the big thick glasses, like, in third grade and -- you know, my peepers have not been the best. But it wasn't until around that time that I started to have real pain. And I jolted up one night in bed and knew something was wrong. Ran to the bathroom, my eye is tearing. I really can't open it, it's so light sensitive, and excruciating pain.

And, you know, I eventually kind of -- I tried compresses, I tried eye drops, but eventually got back to sleep. And I woke up with this terrible migraine, double vision from whatever had happened to me. And I thought, well, that was so strange. What a one-off kind of thing.

And it was only a matter of weeks before it started happening in both eyes. And I couldn't figure out what was going on. Went to my regular eye doctor and he said, Listen, women around their 40s -- your birthday is coming. You will experience dry eye and different changes, and maybe it's that. So we followed up a couple of times, but it was really within a matter of weeks getting to be a very serious problem where I was in this excruciating pain with whatever was happening with my eyeballs.

So I went to go see a specialist. And he was about an hour from where I lived, but highly recommended. Went to him, got some initial feedback from him on what may be going on. He sent me away with a couple of, you know, lotions and potions and things to try. And within a matter of months, I was just crippled by this thing. I couldn't even take a shower without taking eye drops in there with me. Which sounds bizarre, but even water touching my eyes was painful.

And so I just fell into this really dark hole where I couldn't sleep, because I knew whatever this was, when I fell asleep, it was going to happen. I started setting alarms to try to get ahead of it, put additional eye drops and things in my eyes, because I knew if I woke up with this, it was going to be a 10 out of 10 on the pain scale.

Went back to that doctor now deeply into the situation, and he said to me, "You know, you seem very emotional." And I thought, oh, I'm emotional. I was real emotional. But that devastated me. I thought, this guy can't help me, I'm not getting -- I'm getting progressively worse, and my life has been taken over by this thing. And no one but my husband understands this. I'm hiding it from work, I don't want to seem like I can't do my job, but I'm holding on by a thread.

And so I didn't go back to a doctor for months after that because I was so discouraged, but really got to a place where I thought, you know, my life is not worth living. I'm living just trying to exist in pain all the time. And I started searching online. Which I always tell people don't do that because you will quickly find out that you have all the worst diseases and maladies and you're not going to make it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Shannon Bream: But I did find a chat room where people were talking about very similar symptoms, and so I thought, all right, I'm not alone in this. These other people were talking about being turned away from emergency rooms and from doctors who didn't get it and, you know, all the things. And so I sat down at one point with my precious husband, Sheldon -- which, by the way, he says hello to you.

Jennifer Rothschild: I loved meeting him. Yes, he's awesome.

Shannon Bream: I mean, he is a lifesaver and just such a great partner in life. I thank God for him every day.

And I said to him, you know, these people on this website, on these chat rooms, are talking about just taking their own lives. They can't live like this anymore. And it didn't sound crazy to me. I mean, in my mind it made sense. You know, I just want to go to sleep and wake up with the Lord. I can't do this anymore.

And I think we both were startled enough by how deep I'd gotten at that point that we knew I needed other help. So we prayed. And I prayed, Lord, if you're not going to heal me, if this is going to be my thorn in the side, I need a doctor to at least walk this through with -- I need a diagnosis. I need some help. And I prayed that night. We prayed to find a doctor.

And the next day I started working the phones. A really amazing cornea specialist in D.C., who was very in demand, wasn't really taking new patients, I kind of made my case on the phone with his receptionist, who was so kind. And she's like, "Can you hold on just a minute?" And she came back and said, "We just had a cancelation. Can you come in tomorrow"? So I say to this doctor every time I see him, "You know you're an answer to prayer," which kind of weirds him out, but it's really true.

So I went into that appointment the next day. I prayed, "Lord, get me through tonight. Just get me through one more night to this doctor." I got there, we filled out all the paperwork. His P.A. worked with me, did the file workup. And I heard the doctor pick up the file before he came in the room in that little slot outside the door. And he came in and he said, "I know what you have."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my goodness.

Shannon Bream: He hadn't examined me yet, but he was very sure. Sure enough, he did this exam and realized I have a genetic condition, that I'd never been diagnosed with before, which causes my corneas to constantly tear. And so if you've ever scratched your eye, ever had that problem, I was doing that for really a couple of years constantly. And what would happen is my eyes would just dry out, like they do at night for all of us, and my eyelid would adhere to my cornea. And then when my eye would move, it would tear the cornea. And so I was never getting better and I was just getting tear on top of tear on top of tear.

And he described it to me, he said, you know, like if somebody goes out and plays football or soccer and the cleats are ripping up that field and it never gets repaired, and they just keep playing game after game on it, you're like -- your corneas are a disaster. So I got it. And it all made total sense to me about why it was happening at night, why the dryness was such a problem, and I just felt the first flicker of hope in almost two years at that point.

But before we wrapped up, he said, "Let's get you a follow-up appointment," this, that, and the other. "But what you need to know is there is no existing cure for this." And I was so distraught in leaving there. I don't even remember getting out of the office, but I clearly made another appointment. But I somehow stumbled out to my car. Sheldon was waiting for me to call. And I sat in my car just sobbing and sobbing and sobbing.

And you know the story. I don't feel I audibly heard God say this, but in a way that could only be said that he was speaking in my spirit, I felt him say to me, "I will be with you." Not that I'm going to heal you and this is all going away, but "I will be with you." And that was enough to keep me going to that next appointment, to that next medication we tried, each new thing.

And I eventually got to a place where I had a surgery that doesn't always work. Thank the Lord, in my case it's been successful. It was a real tough recovery, but I learned so much from it because all I had was the Lord at that darkest valley. And I try to describe to people it's bitter sweet. Like, I wouldn't have chosen this, I didn't want to walk through that valley, I wanted to get out of it as quickly as possible, but the closeness and the realness and the depth of my relationship with him was a blessing from this.

And it was different. It was a different way than learning when you're on the mountaintops and when things are good. And like I said, I wouldn't have chosen it, but I learned so much of his presence and of his realness and of empathy for other people with whatever they're struggling with too. So there were plenty of good lessons to come from it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you know, I hear it, and I think too -- it reminds me, Shannon, of Psalm 23. You know, when you read Psalm 23, the first few verses, it says, "The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He restores my soul; he guides me," et cetera. But when you get to that -- maybe it's verse 4 -- "Even when I walk through the valley," the pronoun changes from "he" to "you." And that's what you're describing.

The psalmist says, When I'm in the darkest valley, you are with me. Your rod, your staff. And that's what you're explaining, is that nearness. That you would have never chosen the setting, but you experienced a nearness. And I just think that's such an encouragement.

So now do you have any more pain or any more residual, or are you well from it?

Shannon Bream: Listen, I'm well probably 98% of the time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good.

Shannon Bream: And so it truly gave me my life back once I got to the point where I had the surgery, which I knew would be very difficult. It, for me, has been a huge blessing.

Jennifer Rothschild: Thank you, Lord.

Shannon Bream: So I would occasionally -- yes, thank you, Lord.

I mean -- and the fact is, when they did the surgery on my corneas, they did correction too. Because like I said, I was the little kid with the Coke bottle glasses. So the fact that I'm not wearing contacts and that I can see, it's just -- I sometimes will see a bird or a street sign and just say, "Thank you, Lord," I mean, "just for the healing that you've given me." And when I do have a cornea tear now, it's much less severe and the healing is much quicker than it used to be, so I'm just so grateful.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you know, I hear all this too, and I'm hoping that our listeners remember when we introduced you earlier, you are on the news all the time. Like, you're reading on the news, you're on camera. It's not like you can just put on your glasses and say, "Hey, guys, I don't feel good today, I'm not coming in."

So the fact that you could show up and be 100% during this season really is an attest to your tenacity and to the grace of God, and I marvel at that. Because I do podcasts on audio for a reason. I'm not putting on makeup and getting in front of a camera if I don't have to. So, well done. Thank you, Lord.

So here's a question, though, I'm curious about. You know, your book is called "Nothing Is Impossible With God," based on a Scripture, of course. And it's true, right? Nothing -- nothing is impossible. But you dealt with this difficult season. So I'm curious, during that time did you ever wrestle with that question? Like, God, if nothing's impossible, why don't you fix it?

Shannon Bream: Luckily -- like, we would talk about Scripture comes alive in a different way when you're struggling and walking through that valley of the shadow of death. Because I knew Paul's story. I knew in Corinthians where he says -- you know, he asks for this thorn to be taken from him. And God didn't do it, but he said, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in your weakness."

And I knew those verses, I'd always claimed them, but I knew them in a different way when I walked through this. Because that was that prayer that I had. "All right, Lord, if this thorn isn't going away, I need you to walk me through it."

And I know that sometimes when we hit challenges, we can become angry or frustrated with the Lord. He can handle our questions. All throughout Scripture we see people who try to argue with God, which from our vantage we're like, "How crazy are you?" And then I'm like, "Oh, yes, I've argued with God," you know. So I think that he can take our questions.

And I never, though, felt distanced or angry at him, like, why am I walking through this? I might have had the why, but not ever you're not a good God or you don't love me. I never got to that point. I knew he was the bedrock that I had in the midst of all of this.

And, yes, I prayed for healing. Yes, I prayed for those miracles. But I also knew that might not be his plan. And he does answer, and he's provided me a way forward, but I learned so many lessons through this about being vulnerable. I am super independent. Let other people help you. Be empathetic. You don't know what that person -- the coworker next to you, what they may be walking through right now. They may be broken and barely hanging on by a thread. Like, I got so many things from it, so I never felt --

Jennifer Rothschild: That's worthy.

Shannon Bream: Yeah, I never felt abandoned by the Lord. And I just -- I'm sure I had whys along the way, but -- and I know that a lot of things won't be answered for us this side of heaven, but I feel grateful that I've gotten some answers this side of heaven.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, and who knows if the real answer is the greater gift of empathy and vulnerability --

Shannon Bream: Exactly.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- because that just really allows you to relate more deeply.

You know, I was thinking too -- because I've been asked with blindness if I ever get angry with God. And I had to really examine, Shannon. Like, I was a psych major, so I'm like, I'm not angry with God, so what's wrong with me? Shouldn't I have latent rage that I'm not acknowledging, you know? So I really have studied my soul.

And I think for me, I -- I have never had the burning why or the anger toward God, like an angry why, because I need him so much. Number one, I love him so much. But then also, I need him. And why would I ever separate myself from my only true source of stability and health by being angry?

Shannon Bream: Exactly.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's counterproductive. It's not worth it. And I also just love him too much. I don't want to give that toward him. But I do understand someone who's listening may be struggling. And that's part of the process, you know, it's part of the process.

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All right. Now let's get back to this great conversation.

Jennifer Rothschild: I do know that sometimes Christians think that faith means, oh, God's just going to take care of this. He's going to quickly remove this thorn or this hardship, right? So what did your experience teach you about God's timing or his apparent silence? Did you have any takeaways about his timing or his apparent silence during this season?

Shannon Bream: Knowing that he is sovereign over everything and everything comes through his hands, I had to believe that there was a reason for all of this and his timing and the seeking of answers. And, listen, I loved his timing when Sheldon and I prayed and said, "Please help me find the right doctor," and the next day I had that doctor. I mean, sometimes it is an immediate answer to you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shannon Bream: And so sometimes there's that.

But I also know that that period, as difficult it was, it did mature my faith in a different way. And I joke about -- in telling other parts of my story when I got fired from my first TV job by this boss who told me I was the worst person ever and I would never make it, that wasn't fun either. But I'd already walked through that and seen how God had used that valley for me professionally, so I knew that he was going to do something personally.

Like, I knew that he did not want me to just live in existence of complete and utter and total pain all the time and have no reason in it. Because sometimes we don't get physical relief. But I think that we do get spiritual relief and growth and help from him in those valleys.

And you're right, somebody listening now may be in the worst part of one of those valleys. Maybe it's them or someone they love. Or, you know, they've lost a job or lost a loved one or they're struggling with their own diagnosis, and it can feel really, really painful in that place. But I know that God's timing was perfect in leading me to that doctor, in allowing me to grow these empathy muscles that I needed to develop, frankly, and just learning to grow closer to him.

So I had to just rest in the fact that there was something going on and that he hadn't just left me to drift with no hope of a connection with him or his purpose.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, there was purpose. And the purpose is still being realized.

You know, I know a little bit of your story. So you've already mentioned that one of the Scriptures you held on to was the 2 Corinthians 12 about God's grace being sufficient. But was there a song that you really resonated with during this season?

Shannon Bream: Yeah, you know, I did. I love Lauren Daigle. She's so talented. In fact, I was just listening to her "Let It Be A Hallelujah," which is such a glorious song of praise.

But this is years ago. Laura Story, to me, is very much like Lauren in that they tell these stories that are beautiful and personal and painful through their life stories. And if you know Laura Story's story, it is amazing. And she's written a book. I would encourage people to read it too, because it's also about walking through trials and suffering and how God works through that.

But back then, she had a song called "Blessings." And I'd heard it a million times. It played all the time on Christian radio. I played it all the time. I loved it. But it wasn't till I was kind of getting to the back end of starting to get some healing with my corneas that the songs hit me -- the lyrics to the song in the chorus hit me like a ton of bricks.

"What if a thousand sleepless nights are what it takes to know you're near?" You know, this idea of what if your blessings come through raindrops and tears? And I thought, oh, my goodness, Lord, I probably had a thousand sleepless nights through this, but I did learn your nearness through that. And I just think Laura is such a gifted songwriter, and that was born of her own pain.

And so again, it's kind of that cycle of someone else suffering, them being transparent and the Lord giving them a beautiful message through that suffering. And her song was just such a -- truly a blessing to me, this song called "Blessings," and those lyrics just jumped out at me and were so, so true.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. I think that is one of the songs that the Lord has used for this generation, kind of like "It Is Well With My Soul" was for that generation behind us.

Shannon Bream: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: We've had Laura on the podcast -- and 4:13ers, we will link to that also so you'll be able to hear some other episodes with Laura. Because Shannon's right, her books are wonderful. She is an incredible woman. So, yeah, I'm so glad you shared that. It is one of the most meaningful songs, I believe, of this generation.

All right. So, Shannon, let's move to your book. Okay? So in your book, you cover 11 faith heroes. So now you've shared with us a lot of your story, so I -- or part of your story. So I'm curious, in those 11 heroes, did you see your story in any of them?

Shannon Bream: Well, you know, in so many of them. And I think different days, it's like you feel a different, you know, connection to one of these characters. Because you've got people who were willing to go into what God asked them to do immediately, like Nehemiah, somebody like that. I love his story. And sometimes you feel like, yes, Lord, I'm stepping up, I'm ready to go.

But there are many other stories, like Moses or Jonah, who are like, no, Lord, I'm going to sit here and argue with you about what you're telling me about myself or what you're asking me to do. So I definitely have days where I do that as well.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Shannon Bream: So I feel like in every one of these stories, I think all of us can find part of our journey probably. But the thing that's so great is whether these people started out faithful and ready to go or they had some apprehension, or just out and out fought and tried to argue with the God of the universe, he ended up using their stories. I mean, he works through all of us whether we've messed up, whether we're faithful. I think every one of these stories has that redemption arc to it for sure.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, that was what I was going to ask you. If you could determine one red thread or just distill one common thread from all 11 stories, what would it be? And you think it's the redemptive story?

Shannon Bream: I think, sure, yes. Whether we're on board or not, God can redeem when we do come to him ultimately and say, Okay, I get it. Use me, let's move forward with this thing.

I also think that -- you know, every one of these situations that I write about, the idea is of overcoming. And it's based on John 16:33 where Jesus says to the disciples, "You're going to have trouble in this world, but take heart because I've overcome this world." And every one of these stories has that same overcoming aspect. Whether it's overcoming loneliness, people scheming against you, your own self-doubt, there's that threat of overcoming too.

And I think you and I, and probably all your listeners, know when you're facing an impossible situation, whether it's in these biblical stories or our own lives, when God overcomes something that seems by human standards impossible, we can't take the credit. And it just ends up glorifying him, and that thread is in all these stories too.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that. Well, it's because it's God who works in us, you know, both to will and to work for his good pleasure, for his glory. So I love that.

And so here's just a rando question. Did you write this book for you or someone else? Because sometimes I write the books I wish I could read because of what I'm dealing with. So I'm curious how your life impacted your desire to write this book about overcoming.

Shannon Bream: That's a great question. And I had always wanted to write this book. Because I see this collection of these overcomers and I do feel like I have a bit of that where the Lord has shown up and overcome my circumstances in it.

So I definitely love these stories and wanted to spend some more time with them. But I am always thinking ultimately about who's going to read it and whether it will encourage them, and that's -- I'm always thinking I want to encourage, but I want to equip as well.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Shannon Bream: So there are principles to pull from these stories. I want you to read them and be like, okay, God's working, he's aware, everything's going to be okay. But also, what did these people do? You know, in each story there are different things you can pick up. They were still, they watched for God's salvation, they waited for how he was going to work. They trusted him.

And so, yeah, I think everything that we write, probably we've got our own little bit of interest in it. And I've always selfishly really loved these stories and wanted to put them together in a collection, but --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Shannon Bream: But yeah. And to put them out into the world, I hope it will be a blessing to people.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, what blesses us, blesses each other, you know. So I just love that.

Now, here's another left field -- we're about to wind up, but I got to ask you this left field question.

Okay. So I, when I met you, I told you Phil and I, before we go to church, on Sunday mornings we watch Shannon Bream, Fox News Sunday. And I think you are brilliant and do such a stellar job moderating and stewarding these conversations with all these thought experts and political people. And I am also mindful, in our culture there is a lot of -- political fervor is a nice way for me to put it. And so to me, it feels impossible, Shannon.

So here you are, a woman of faith, and you show up every Sunday and you keep your cool and you show such discretion and kindness. So talk to us, just your body of believers, your family of God, your brothers and sisters, how do we deal with the impossible of our differences, the alleged impossibility of our differences, when it comes to politics and culture?

Shannon Bream: Yeah. And it's such a great question, because I think we all feel the tension of that if you're plugged in at all.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Shannon Bream: And listen, I have a lot of friends who will say -- and even my husband at times -- like, "I'm just checked out. I cannot take the news right now, so you just tell me if I need to know anything really important because I just can't take it." And I'll say to people, "I get it, I 100% get it."

So, I mean, I try to do a couple of things. I think my morning mental reset, my faith investment, you know, resetting to that eternal perspective. I think, okay, the Lord has called us to love each other. We are all created in his image. Even the person you think, "I would never agree with them, they're a horrible person," someone maybe looks at you that way too. So we all have to remember that we are creating in God's image.

And Dr. Robbie George, this amazing Princeton professor, strong believer, I always think about what he says too. That you've got to go into these conversations, and we have to have, you know, conversations with people that we love, that we are in different places, with the open mind that maybe you can learn something. Maybe you're wrong about something. Or even just understanding someone else's perspective, you don't compromise your own core principles and your beliefs, but at least you hear people out so you understand where their fear is coming from, where their anger is coming from. And I think if you understand each other better, you can work towards some kind of common ground.

And listen, I don't think, as I said, you should compromise your core beliefs on anything, but we should be able to have a conversation. Even if you walk away, like, okay, we're going to agree to disagree, but I hope that you felt I respected you in that conversation. Because eternally what we're called is to build God's kingdom, not ours. Not our political kingdoms, not our favorite candidate's kingdom, not our favorite issues kingdom. It's about bringing people to Christ.

And if we have such division that we look at people in a way that they're the other, quote/unquote, how are we ministering to them or bringing them to Christ, you know? And it's not easy.

And I write about in the book this is Jonah's story. Because we know that he doesn't want to go to Nineveh when God tells him to go. And part of that's because the Assyrians were horribly brutal people. I mean, I write in the book that I was hesitant to even include the things that they did to their enemies because they're so grotesque. But I always thought as a kid, well, that's why Jonah didn't go, he was afraid.

But if you really dig into Jonah's story, part of the reason he didn't go is he didn't want the Ninevites to have the same grace from God that he did. He didn't think they were redeemable or should be forgiven in a lot of ways. If you read his story, it seems that he's actually upset when they come to God and he redeems them.

So are we looking around at other people and thinking, oh, yes, I deserve God's grace, but not that group. They're so awful and terrible, they don't need Jesus. They don't deserve Jesus. Are we having our Jonah moment or are we looking and saying God's called me to go to everyone, and that means I'm going to have to not be about winning sometimes, I'm going to have to be about building God's kingdom, and that can look very different than winning a political argument.

Jennifer Rothschild: Whew. Okay, preach. Amen. Thank you for that. And it shows in the way that you steward your calling on the morning news. I appreciate it so much, Shannon. I love that about you. I appreciate that. That is the grace of God and the maturity of Christ. So thank you, Lord, and may we all learn.

Okay, Shannon, I'm recommending your book highly, just because I recommend you. I was telling your PR person, Sophie, before we got online, I said, "Listen, I just love to talk to Shannon. We could discuss her grocery list and I'd be edified."

Shannon Bream: We have a good time.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I can guarantee we are going to love this book.

So let's get to our last question, though, Shannon. All right. There is someone listening and, oh, they feel so stuck. Like, they feel stuck in an impossible situation. It might be physically, it might be emotionally, it might be relationally or spiritually. Okay? What can you say to them, from your own journey and Scripture, to just help them with their impossible?

Shannon Bream: I think sometimes when I've been in my stuck place or my doubts or questions about the Lord, I've just said, "Lord, please just meet me where I am." We don't have to have it all figured out. We don't have to be spiritually perfect. We can't be. Our life doesn't have to be organized. Sometimes I just say, "Lord, you know where I'm at. Please just come meet me in this place with this doubt, with this question, with this frustration."

And like I said earlier, he can take it. I mean, he can handle human questioning and prodding and frustration. I think he just wants us to at least be willing to come to him.

And so, you know, this book is written for people who may have some understanding of the Bible. For sure you'll have some familiarity with these stories. But even if you are not a person of faith, I think that if you come with an open mind and heart, you'll be encouraged and see how God is working. And if you are a person of faith and you feel stuck somewhere, you'll see yourself in these stories as well, I mean, that God was always weaving things together.

Think about Joseph. He's one of my favorite stories. I mean, sold into slavery by his own brothers, thrown in jail for something he didn't do. I mean, years of his youth were just taken from him in these oppressive situations, that he'd done nothing to bring on himself. But we never see him say, That's it. I give up, God. You've allowed me to land in these horrible places that I don't deserve.

Instead, when it all comes full circle and he's been lifted from prison, he's been elevated to the number two ruler of Egypt, and his brothers who sold him into slavery show up and need his help, don't even realize it's him, but in this terrible famine he's able to provide food that preserved Jacob's family, which is the genesis of Israel. He was perfectly placed. So he had to suffer all of those things, and he could not have known in all those intervening years that this is what it was about.

But he has that famous verse in Genesis that people often quote, "What you meant for evil, God meant for good." And it's not that you did something evil, God then scrambled in there unexpectedly and turned it around. No. What you were doing, God knew about it. He meant it for good. And so I take great hope in Joseph's story that God is always aware and working wherever you feel stuck.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my people, Shannon is right. You do not have to figure it all out. Just ask God, "Meet me here." And that's what he does. He will meet you right there. I'm telling you -- you already figured this out, didn't you? She is the real thing. And I just love how she loves the Word.

I'm so thankful that we have a sister out there on mainstream media who really does carry the light of Christ into every single thing she does. So family, we got to pray for her. We need to be the family who prays for our sister. Pray God will protect her and that he will give her grace every day.

All right. And you know what else you need to do? You need to get her book and you need to get encouraged. So we're going to, of course, have a link to Shannon's book on the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/393. And the transcript is there too. So I'm going to make sure that you guys know right where to find that, because there was so much that was so good.

All right. So, KC, I know you're listening, probably blowing your nose and taking some Sudafed, but I know you're listening. We miss you, KC. We can't wait for you to be back with us.

All right, family, this one is a wrap. So remember, you can trust the truth that nothing is impossible with God, because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can. And that means you can too.