Jennifer Rothschild Show: Making Jesus Everything with Jennie Allen

**NOTE: This transcript was automatically transcribed and may contain errors, misspellings, or mistranslated words.**

Jennie Allen: I can wake up with things on my mind, be consumed with them, and notice it and just immediately interrupt and say, God, I give everything and everyone to you. This prayer is from John Eldredge. I give everything and everyone to you.

And then I'll start naming things. I'll say, God, I give you, you know, this kid that is not making great choices right now. I give him to you.

And I give you this circumstance that's totally out of my control. I give it to you. And it's unbelievable how my breathing shifts.

Yeah. How I find peace in the middle of a moment. You know, it just— it's like a complete shift.

And it's just that evidence of like, God wants to carry these things for us. He wants to carry these things. He wants to carry us through it.

And we— for it, we try to control it. And it's stealing so much joy.

Jennifer Rothschild: Welcome to The Jennifer Rothschild Show. This is where thoughtful people come to grow. And I'm so glad you're here.

All right, brace yourself for this statement. When Jesus is everything, everything changes. Ooh.

But how do we make Jesus our everything? Well, today, author Jennie Allen is going to invite you into a conversation about what it really means to follow Jesus, not halfway, not carefully, but by surrendering 100%. Ooh, this is such a good conversation, and it is a great follow-up to the conversation we had last week.

So I'm so glad you're here. Let's settle in and get going. Well, welcome back, friends.

I hope you had a good week. Maybe you remember what I told you last week about how my friend Lori taught me to grasp tightly when I felt like I was being a little more controlling and then feel the relief of letting go. I hope you did that a couple of times last week.

I've done it several times, believe me. And today you're not going to have to do that because you are going to have open hands to receive and to experience Jesus in such a personal way. And I'm so glad you get to do that with me.

You may know— I can't remember if I've told you, so if I haven't, I'm telling you now— but you may know that I have been writing a Bible study, my next Bible study. I've already turned in the manuscript. And it will be published next year. in August of 2027, the Bible study is on Jesus.

Yes, that is the topic of the Bible study. And can I just tell you, I was so intimidated. Like, I really had to pray because I just felt so ill-equipped to write about Jesus.

'Cause can we be honest? I mean, the Bible is about Jesus, and scholars have written about Jesus for centuries. And I felt like, what else could I say?

Yeah. that would really help us grow closer to Jesus because, oh, we do not need more information about him. No, we need a deeper encounter with him. So anyway, here I was, I was writing this Jesus Bible study, and I'll give you a little sneak peek, okay?

Since it's just us, I am basing this study of Jesus on what I call the library of Scripture. We're gonna see who Jesus is in the library of Scripture because that's what all 66 books are, right? They are this library of Scripture that tells us who Jesus is.

Leonard Sweet used the word, it's the theography. That's, that's what Jesus is. And that's what we see in the library of Scripture is the theography of God, Jesus.

So as I was writing this, I'm going through John chapter 1 because we need a map. You know, it's such a vast library. We need a map.

And so John 1 was serving as my map to help guide us through this library of Scripture. Well, I was talking about how Jesus is the Logos, the Word from the beginning. Jesus is the light.

The true light that has come into the world. He's the love of God. He's Lord.

He's Lamb. I'm not going to go through all of it with you right now, but here's what happened to me. I had been working and working and working, and I was getting to the point where I felt lonely for Jesus.

Now, isn't that interesting that I would be spending every day studying Jesus, writing about Jesus, thinking about Jesus, but I was lonely for him? Yeah. And the reason was because I was grinding so hard to get the information right about Jesus that my experience with him was waning and I was missing him.

And so once I finally just put my head in my hands and realized what was happening, I texted my friend, my assistant, Kenzie, and I said, Kenzie, we are going to Kendra Scott. Now I know you might think that is like a wacky thing to do when you're feeling this spiritual loneliness. But I said to Kenzie, we need to go to Kendra Scott.

And there was a reason. Kendra Scott is my favorite jewelry store, and I wanted to get a ring. And this ring, I wanted it to be a certain color.

I wanted it to mimic the color that was on the COVID of the Bible study, and that color is this shade of amethyst. Okay, so we walk into Kendra Scott and I tell the, the, um, what is she called who sells you things? The clerk.

The clerk. Um, that we want matching, or at least matching, um, the color matching amethyst rings. Okay.

Oh, are you both February birthdays? No, no. I'm discouraged.

She's my assistant. I'm a lot to handle, so she gets a ring. No, none of that really happened, but that's what was going through my head.

So I just told the sales clerk that we wanted amethyst rings. So we picked out different stones, and the reason That we got these stones is because this became for me a tangible reminder that Jesus was with me. And it became something I could feel against my skin.

And the nearness of this ring on my skin reminded me of the nearness of Jesus in my life. And so literally I've been wearing my Jesus ring ever since. I will, I will put my finger on the top and feel the stone and just think of how beautiful he is.

I feel the circle surrounding my finger and I'm reminded that he surrounds me. And it just became a tangible— Wow. reminder to move from information about Jesus to the nearness of Jesus, the intimacy of relationship. That's what Jennie Allen's going to be talking about today.

And we don't experience that unless we're willing to really see Jesus as our 100%, as our everything, as our very life, as the air that we breathe. So I'm going to introduce you to Jennie. I figure you know who she is.

She's a Bible teacher. She's an author. She's a podcaster.

And she is -- she's the founder of the IF:Gathering, and she's written 4 bestsellers, and she lives in Dallas. Her husband's name is Zach. They've got 4 kids, and the woman has got a lot to say.

So you've heard enough from me. Let's listen in to Jennie Allen.

[INTERVIEW BEGINS]

All right, Jennie, your book is called When Jesus Is Everything.

Okay, I love that, and that's quite lofty. So let's start with this. Like, I want you to describe your life, okay?

Did you have a before and after? Like, what did your life look like before you made Jesus everything, and what did it look like after you made everything? And is there really a line in the sand, or do you go back and forth?

Jennie Allen: Um, like, short answer, for sure go back and forth every day, right? Right. But, but there are also lines in the sand.

Where I love this about God, that there's so many times He can— it feels like, oh my gosh, am I ever going to change? Am I ever going to grow? And then there's those catalytic moments where you just— so much changes all at once.

And so I do feel like there's this small, slow, steady change that we all experience every day. And there are moments that have really marked me. I think of a few, actually.

Yeah. I think of college. Right before college where I give my life to Jesus, and it is so radical.

And I really loved Him. Like, I had grown up around Him. My family loved God, but I didn't fall in love with Him until I was 17 years old.

And when I did, it was just, it was just, it was like I didn't see and then I saw, and I had to give Him away. I was just, I couldn't believe it was, the Gospel was that good. And it really was, for me at that point, everything.

And yet I still struggled with with— I'd struggle with an eating disorder in college and all kinds of different struggles at that time that he would slowly claw out of my hand. And it would take time to heal over things. And then, you know, I remember being around 30-ish, and I remember reading the blog of Katie Davis, who was in Uganda and adopted kids off the street.

And I was on my bathroom floor reading her blog and just crying and just saying, God, like, I'll do anything. I'll do whatever you want me to do. And I saw all kinds of new idols that had crept up and old ones too, that just had become more important than God.

And that was a really significant turning point for me. I actually wrote about it called Anything, where we just prayed anything over and over again. And we saw God start to speak and move.

And I would say even recently, about, I don't know, within the last 5 years, I just, again, have just said, Lord, like, I'll do whatever you call me to do. I'll do anything you ask. And I feel like I've been living in Narnia the last 5 years where just the goodness of God is everywhere.

And I just want to be in his will. And I see— I just see him moving in such profound ways on earth right now. And I also, you know, see the darkness and see the warfare.

And it's like there's witches and there's talking beavers and it's all there. And it's It's magical and horrible and hard, but also, it does feel like He's taking me deeper. And so, yeah, I think there's been so many moments.

But I will say, on the other side of surrender is everything good about my life. And I cannot imagine, imagine if I never released it all to Him, what I would be missing.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and what we would be missing, what the body of Christ would be missing, because God has Clearly worked through you and flowed through you. That surrender has made space for him to flow through you, and it's a beautiful thing. You know, you, you mentioned Narnia, but Aslan is on the move, right?

Even in the dark, even with the goblins and the witches, Aslan is on the move. But you also mentioned one word when you were describing these before and afters of idols. Okay.

So in your book, you write about how outcomes Approval, control, comfort, and success can all become more important to us than Jesus. So, okay, does that mean they're idols? And how do we know if one of those things has become more important than Jesus to us?

Jennie Allen: What do we think about? What do you think about? And I would say, when thoughts have grown in your mind to where they consume you, And you find yourself thinking all the time about controlling circumstances in your life, about ease, about checking out.

When you find yourself scrolling all the time, you know, what is it that you're trying to escape? And I would just say, of course, of course, life is hard. Of course, we have trouble in this life.

And it feels like it's so easy to want to escape. Yeah. Our real lives.

It just is. And yet, oh, there's so much God wants to do in and through and around us. And so, if we're always overthinking, if we're always worried about the future, if we're always tied up in knots, it just— it's so amazing.

I can do this in a given day. I can wake up with things on my mind, be consumed with them, and notice it and just immediately interrupt and say, God, I give everything and everyone to you. This prayer is from John Eldredge.

I give everything and everyone to you. And then I'll start naming things. I'll say, God, I give you, you know, this kid that is not making great choices right now.

I give him to you. And I give you this circumstance that's totally out of my control. I give it to you.

And it's unbelievable how my breathing shifts, how I find peace in the middle of a moment. You know, it just— it's like a complete shift. Wow.

And it's just that evidence of like, God wants to carry these things for us. He wants to carry these things. He wants to carry us through it.

And we fight for it, and we try to control it, and it's stealing so much joy.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love John Eldredge also, and I pray that prayer so often too. In fact, my friend and I, we call it, we call it the cheese puffs prayer. And here's why.

She was listening, you know, to the Pause app, and she was praying it with John Eldredge. She had done this several days in a row, and finally her little adolescent son said, Mom, why does he keep saying cheese puffs instead of Jesus? He thought John Eldredge was saying "Cheese puffs, I give you everything."

Jennie Allen: Jennifer, I— that— I have to tell him that story. He will love that.

Jennifer Rothschild: You need to. So now when I do pray it, I smile every time because I'm like, Jesus cheese puffs, I love you, Jesus cheese puffs. Isn't that precious?

But anyway, my point is this: it helps us to name them specifically. Because I think sometimes we're like, Jesus, I just put you first, when we have no idea what other things are really vying for first place. But when we name them, then I think we're able to right-size and right-order those things in our heart.

And listen, what you just shared is me also. In a given day, I can do all of it. Yeah.

One of the things you write about in your book is following Jesus. You say that following Jesus is less about trying harder Okay, I'm gonna pause and make sure everybody heard that. Following Jesus is less about trying harder and more about surrendering sooner.

Okay, unpack that, Jennie.

Jennie Allen: Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things I've learned is our emotions really are gifts. And, and what I mean by that, we tend to demonize them, we tend to think that they are damaging to our lives, and if we could just feel happy all the time, you know, it'd be better.

But the reality is, like, all of these feelings— when I feel anxious, when I feel worried, when I feel angry, even when I feel sad— they're pointing to things that need attention, right?

So whenever I feel anxious in a day, it's a gift because I don't know— I want to believe that I would have a vibrant walk with God without all of the things I fear. Yeah. coming at me in a given day or difficulty hitting me, but I just wouldn't. And so the beauty of our emotions is it leads us to Jesus.

Like, it leads us to connection with God. And so I feel like what I've learned is just the sooner that I notice and I'm self-aware to notice, oh gosh, I really am worried about this thing, the sooner I take it to Him. And so I— yes, it's the big moments like we talked about, but it's also just resting in his provision for today.

I feel like my counselor, like most of what I've learned from my very Christian, amazing, God-fearing counselor is— Mm-hmm. Kurt Thompson, is, hey, Jennie, like, do you have enough today? You have enough you need to be responsible for.

You have enough to carry. Like, if you can just stay in the day and surrender quickly anything that, that it is that is burdening you. It's just so much easier way to live.

And so, yeah, I feel like that's my practice is just stay in the day and as quickly as I can notice and name what it is that's bothering me and take it to Jesus.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's so good. Because I think sometimes because we love the Lord, we want to do the right thing, we just try harder. Oh, I have anxiety.

I'm gonna try harder not to. Oh, I'm angry. I'm going to try harder not to be.

And what you're saying, you're kind of flipping the script and saying just surrender it sooner, and then there is no striving, and that is a relaxing way to live. But I'm curious, because I think it is counterintuitive, um, why do you think surrender is so difficult for us humans?

Jennie Allen: I think we think we can control it. I think we think we can fix it. I think I watched a friend last night in our small group just spiraling about a relative.

And, oh, we've gotten to walk through her with it. And I've got the spiraling relatives too, right? So I know exactly what this feels like.

And we've watched her for 2 weeks just spin out about this. And I'm so glad because what a gift that we can be an empathetic witness to her struggle, right? Like, that's such a privilege.

And so we're wrestling, we're listening, we're there for her. In it. And, and after, you know, time together last night, I mean, she just shared everything, every angle, everything.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hmm.

Jennie Allen: And then at the end, we just listened. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

And listening and feeling it with her. And she goes, what do I do? This is after, you know, so many, you know, days, weeks.

And around the room, there were 4 of us empathetically witnessing. And around the room, we go around and say, there's nothing you can do. There's nothing.

I mean, you can pray. Of course you can pray.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jennie Allen: But this person has to decide. It's their life. Like, yeah, they've got to decide to change.

You can't— there's nothing you can do. She could not believe it.

Jennifer Rothschild: That there is nothing she could do.

Jennie Allen: And then for a minute, you watched in her eyes. She was like, You mean I'm not supposed to be doing anything? Like pray?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jennie Allen: She goes, but then I'll feel guilty. That's what she said next.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. Oh my gosh.

Jennie Allen: I was like, I know. And that isn't of God. Like, there's a reality that we just don't have as much control as we think.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jennie Allen: And so why is it so hard to just surrender? It's because we think we can fix it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jennie Allen: And so to lay it down and just stop feels so counterintuitive. It feels loving. We feel guilty about it.

We think we should be doing more.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Oh, 100%. Listen, you just talked with Lisa TerKeurst last week, and we talked about similar things.

But I think you're right. We feel guilty because we think somehow, ultimately, if we're letting it go, it means we care less about it, or we are un-involving ourselves in something, when, when we're just really just laying it down where it belongs. At the feet of the throne.

And, you know, speaking of John Eldredge, he talks about that benevolent detachment. We can still care and detach. And I think sometimes that's what surrender looks like.

It's like saying, okay, it's out of my hands. It's in yours, Lord. I don't want to keep taking it back.

And that's hard. That's very hard. And you talked about a few minutes ago spiritual growth, and I want to circle back to this because we want these moments in our life that are like your aha moments, like, you know, when you're on your bathroom floor crying over a book and saying, I'll do anything for you, Lord, right?

We want those moments because they seem so defining. But you talk about spiritual growth usually is not dramatic. Instead, it like happens slowly.

So what would you say to the person who's listening, and maybe they feel like they should be much further along now spiritually than they are?

Jennie Allen: Wow. You know, Why does it take so long? Why, why, why?

I think God is very patient with us. I think we are very distractible.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hmm.

Jennie Allen: I think this is a lifetime of becoming more like Jesus. And, and the, the peace that I have is the peace that I get from parenting, right? If I look— we had, uh, we adopted our son and, and one thing somebody said when we adopted him is, why don't you start the clock at zero when you get him, even though he was almost 4?

So, it was like, you know, to kind of expect like his milestones to be delayed. And so, you have patience that at 10 years old, he's acting more like a 6-year-old. You have patience that at 12 years old, he's acting more like an 8-year-old.

So, doing the math here, that's challenging. Yes. So, that was huge for us because we just got to have more grace.

And I think And I think for all of us, it's like, well, we all have things that have delayed our growth. We all have trauma and things that it feels like we have gone backwards. But the reality is all of the difficulty is actually building beauty and strength and resilience.

And I look at myself today and the things that would have made me crumble at 25 happen on a daily basis in my life today. You know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Yes.

Jennie Allen: It's like that one thing that happened. Today, just today, would make me crumble for months. And now it's like, oh yeah, I've got really thick skin.

I'm not very fragile. Like, I'm pretty tough. But I also have a healthier view of my emotions and I feel deeper.

And so I look at my maturity today and I go, gosh, that— I never saw that coming. I don't know what day that happened. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know when I got stronger, but I can absolutely see if I look back 10 years how much how much stronger I am. And so I, I just think we rest in the process.

I love that he who begins a good work in us will be faithful to complete it, and that, that's his work, right? Isn't that fun? I mean, it's— it is.

I think we're doing way more than we're doing.

Jennifer Rothschild: I so agree. Well, and isn't it, uh, in the same book of Philippians when Paul writes that it is God who works in us both to will and to work for his good pleasure? Like, he's doing it and we're just cooperating.

That's it.

Jennie Allen: Right! I think so much of it is just, it's just keep looking at me, keep looking at me, you know, keep looking at God.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jennie Allen: And, and abide with me, abide with me, I got you. Well, you know. I love when he simplifies it all down.

I'm like, I can do that. I can stay his friend, you know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Oh man. Well, there are people in my life who are complicators, and sometimes I look at myself in the mirror and think— and you're one of them, Jennifer, especially in your relationship with the Lord— you can complicate things when really it's just grace.

It's just grace. In fact, that's one of the things appreciate about your devotional is that you're giving us an opportunity every single day to spend time with Jesus and make him everything. And in your book, you do talk a lot about control.

And, you know, I just mentioned I was with Lisa TerKeurst. That's what we talked about. And I think it's so interesting how these themes keep coming together.

So I am curious what you think are some of the signs, okay, that we are trying to control our lives rather than trusting God with them.

Jennie Allen: Well, I think the first sign is, are you anxious? And, you know, I think about the lilies, like, they blow in the wind, they don't— they are at peace. And the birds of the air, they don't wonder where their food's going to come from.

And there's a peace that comes from believing that God is in control, and that I can't control everything. Yeah. It is learned.

Oh, it is learned. It is not something that we just know coming out of the womb. It is something that, that we fight every day of our life, even still, even though that's grown in me.

And so I, I do believe that peace is given by God as we keep going. And, you know, I, I've done a lot of risky things in my life for the kingdom. I've stood— I relate to Moses where I've stood at the Red Sea, and I've had my arms up, and I'm like, man, I'm, I'm standing here, God.

And, and that, that space between, like, you know, standing there and the army pressing in on the back of you and God parting the Red Sea feels eternal. You know, it just feels so long. And I've lived in those moments a lot, in the last— especially in the last few years.

And, and he's never made me a fool. I've never been a fool for having faith in God, ever. Not one time.

It has felt like it in that gap. It has felt like it when it feels like it goes a different direction than I thought. But I look back and I was like, gosh, you provided.

You were there. You did the thing. And so, I just am at a place in my life where currently, I stand there again with some things, right?

I stand there again, and the army's pressing in again, and the water's in front of me, and other people I love are behind me. And I'm going, okay, God. But I've learned not to lose sleep.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jennie Allen: I— so I just think about even this week, the thing burdening me the most, I just said out loud, I said, God, I trust you to take care of this. I'm gonna sleep. And I trust you to take care of this.

And I fell asleep. Great. And I used to— wouldn't have.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right. Oh, I— yes, I understand totally.

Jennie Allen: He's just been too faithful.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and you— when you— the more you walk with him, the more you see it, the more you know it, the more you trust it. And this is not a one and done episodic experience we have with Jesus. It's the daily beautiful grind.

Jennie Allen: Well, and to the person listening that feels like, well, I want to get there, you know, you are.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ah, that's a good word.

Jennie Allen: Are you walking with Jesus? You are. You will be.

And but it took the banging my steering wheel again and again. It took weeping on my bathroom floor. It took, you know, like everything that bought me that peace was costly, you know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah. Well, and honestly, we cannot separate our experience of peace from our encounter with Jesus. They are inseparable.

And so that's why even this devotional is such a beautiful opportunity. Just keep walking with Him. Just keep walking.

Yeah, just come on. Oh, Jennie, this is so, so good. We're gonna get to our last question.

Which I kind of don't want to because this is such a good conversation. So everybody needs to get this devotional, and you do not need to just wait and read one a day. You can binge.

You can binge read. Okay, if you can do it with Netflix, you can do it with the Devo. All right, but here's our last question.

Because this is the podcast where thoughtful people come to grow, I would love to know, Jennie Allen, what is it, or what is one thing that has helped you grow?

Jennie Allen: Hmm, you know, I did something wild a few months ago.

Jennifer Rothschild: What?

Jennie Allen: I read my whole Bible in 31 days, and it changed my life. I became a Christian again. I had never done that.

I've done— I've obviously read through the Bible many times in my life, and I've studied every book and have charts on every book. I know Nahum. Like, I've got a grasp on the whole book.

It was like I'd never read it. It was as if I didn't understand the Gospel. It wrecked me.

I can't tell you how powerful it was. And I would just say every human needs to do this, whether you're a believer or not. I think if you aren't a believer, it's the most read book in the world.

Every person should want to know it and understand what it says. And if you are a believer, every believer needs to read it in that way. Once because it just wrecked me.

I was blown away. And so that probably is the best way I've grown in recently.

Jennifer Rothschild: Brilliant.

Jennie Allen: 3 hours a day. That's what it takes.

Jennifer Rothschild: 3 hours a day. That's a worthy 3 hours right there.

Jennie Allen: Yep.

Jennifer Rothschild: Brilliant. Thanks, Jennie.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Oh my, there were There were so many great truth bombs dropped in this conversation, weren't there?

I loved when she told us what helped her grow was reading the Bible in 31 days. If you've been hanging around with us for a while on the podcast, you probably are aware that we had a podcast about this with Mary DeMuth. So you need to check the show notes because Mary unpacked this for us on how to literally read the Bible in 30 days.

And Jennie said, I think she said it took her 3 hours a day. And that's what I did also. That's why listening to Mary Demuth will also help you.

And I will have a link to her podcast on the show notes because she'll help you structure it, which is what I needed. And I did it too, y'all. I did it.

I read the Bible for 3 hours every day, um, for about 20 days. And then I read it for maybe 2 hours. And then, okay, so let me just be honest.

I read the Bible in 62 days, not 30. But the point is, I did it and it helped me walk with Jesus in a more personal way. And that's the point, is to walk with him in a very personal way.

You know what I'm finding, y'all, these, uh, seeds for thought that when I ask our friends what's helped them grow, man, isn't that just some of the richest parts of the conversation? Well, I hope you can have some good conversations with your friends this week. Share the podcast, please.

If it ministered to you, it'll minister to somebody else. Go to the show notes to find Jennie's book, to find the podcast I mentioned about Mary and reading the Bible in 30 days. Get a transcript, get everything you need there just to help you continue to grow.

Thanks for hanging out with me this week. I'll see you next week. And guess who's on?

Stasi Eldredge. You don't want to miss it. I'll see you then.