4:13 Podcast: Can I Rekindle My Faith? With Dr. Mark Yarbrough

Mark Yarbrough: There will be times in the ebb and flow of life where, man, things are phenomenal and we are on that mountaintop moment. But here's what I'm just saying: you don't live on the mountaintop all the time. And it just happens. And so if he's the God of the mountaintop, he's got to be the God of the valley.

And so what can we do? And that's why in one sense I'm asking these questions of how can we revitalize -- right? -- our faith if we find ourselves where it's not ablaze? Or if we find ourselves in that moment where it is ablaze, how can we keep stoking the fire?

Jennifer Rothschild: Consider this: Could it be that you started your spiritual life with a burst of joy and likely you just could not wait to open your Bible and to go to church and to share your faith? But I wonder, is it possible that somewhere along the way your passion faded? Well, if that's you, you are not alone, and this podcast, it is for you.

Bible teacher and seminary president Dr. Mark Yarbrough is going to be here today, and he's going to help you rekindle your faith by guiding you back to six core essentials. I'm telling you, this conversation, ooh, it's biblically rich, theologically sound, and it was fun and real life.

So what in the world are we sitting around talking about it? Let's get to it.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, this is Jennifer. That was KC Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. Two friends, one topic --

Jennifer and KC: -- zero stress.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know what? Right before we started this, I had this conversation with Mark -- and it was wonderful, by the way -- and then I realized I went -- in third grade there was a boy in my class named Mark Yarbrough.

KC Wright: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: And it didn't even dawn on me when I was talking to this Mark Yarbrough. I wonder if they're the same Mark Yarbrough.

KC Wright: What if?

Jennifer Rothschild: What if? (Singing) Da da da da.

KC Wright: What are the chances?

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. But I gotta tell y'all something.

KC Wright: Mm-hmm?

Jennifer Rothschild: We get so many great reviews from you all, so many beautiful emails. You 4:13ers are the best.

KC Wright: Best.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so if you haven't left a review, please do so.

But I gotta share with you one that I got. And I got her permission. Her name is Stephanie. And she left me an audio message. Okay? So this is Stephanie, and I want you to hear what she said about the 4:13.

Recording of Stephanie: Hi Jennifer. I just wanted to take a quick minute and let you know how much your podcasts mean to me, how much I look forward to listening to them each and every week. I do wait typically until Saturday or Sunday to listen, as I have figured out a way to look forward to ironing each week, and that is by listening to your podcast at the same time.

So something I used to dread spending an hour on, now I look forward to because I know I'm going to be engaged in something new and interesting, and it's going to be thought-provoking and many times lead to something new in my own life.

For instance, a few weeks ago you had a guest on who was talking about their spiritual and prayer life and had a very simple five-step process that they used in the morning. I've adopted that and I am really, really feeling a deeper connection.

So I thank you so much for all of the wonderful guests that you have and the opportunity to tune in to you guys each and every week. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful and blessed day.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wasn't that beautiful? She's so precious.

KC Wright: Aw.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. But I gotta say, the thing that just -- I laughed out loud when I first heard: ironing. Stephanie, I'm so glad you listen while you're ironing. But I don't want you to have to iron anymore.

KC Wright: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's over. Don't iron. Wrinkles, wrinkles are cool.

KC Wright: And I didn't even know people still ironed. I mean, I have an ironing board and I have an iron --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, me too.

KC Wright: -- but it's covered in dust and I haven't seen it. I don't know where it's at in the laundry room. I mean, I throw my clothes in the dryer with a wet washrag --

Jennifer Rothschild: Do you really?

KC Wright: -- and hit "high" --

Jennifer Rothschild: That's beautiful.

KC Wright: -- and that's how we get things out. We get the wrinkles out in the Wright Homestead with the dryer on high.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I won't buy anything that needs to be ironed.

KC Wright: Gotcha.

Jennifer Rothschild: I just won't do it.

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So when I travel -- because, you know, I travel every weekend --

KC Wright: Oh, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- I literally fold all my clothes based -- you know, within their little outfit group in big giant Ziploc bags. You know, like vacuum packed?

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: I stuff it all in there very neatly --

KC Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- zip it up and sit on it before it's totally closed to get all the air out --

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- and then they're compressed. But then nothing wrinkles. I mean -- but I won't buy it if it wrinkles.

So, Stephanie, I just want to applaud you for two reasons. One, that was so precious. Thank you for taking the time to leave that review. And secondly, way to go. You probably have the best looking clothes of the whole 4:13 family because there are not wrinkles.

KC Wright: Facts.

Jennifer Rothschild: I could use an iron on my face, though, as I'm aging. Anyway...

KC Wright: Well, I'm telling you, that's biblical because --

Jennifer Rothschild: What?

KC Wright: Well, Jesus is coming back for a bride without spot or wrinkle.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh --

KC Wright: So that's Scripture.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- Stephanie.

KC Wright: So you can go ahead and get Botox. You don't need it, though. You do not need it --

Jennifer Rothschild: Anyway...

KC Wright: -- but...

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I talk about in the Heaven Bible study how we all start out in this life as plums. You know, we're thick and that skin's so tight. The longer we live, we're a prune, let's just be honest. Dude, you can Botox that prune all you want, it will still be a prune. And I love it. Lord, thank you for letting me grow into this pruney stage of life with dignity and joy.

All right. This conversation is going to bring you joy, so let's introduce Mark Yarbrough.

KC Wright: Dr. Mark Yarbrough is a popular Bible conference speaker, professor, and the president of Dallas Seminary in Dallas, Texas. He's the author of multiple books, including the best-selling "How to Read the Bible Like a Seminary Professor" and "Jonah: Beyond the Tale of a Whale." He is also the featured speaker at the Story of Scripture conferences, but today, my friend, he is --

Jennifer and KC: -- a 4:13er.

KC Wright: So here's Jennifer and Mark.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Mark, I am so glad we get to talk about this, because you have written a book called "The Rekindled Heart." So before we even, you know, explore your book and get theoretical about this, I want to get personal. So have there been times, or has there been a time in your own faith, when it was just cold? I mean, because, like, you are in ministry. So did your faith ever have a time when you dwindled and needed rekindling?

Mark Yarbrough: Oh, my goodness. I should say, how long do we have, you know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right?

Mark Yarbrough: I mean, come on, this is the story of every believer. We all have moments in our lives where it's just not on fire. And sometimes it happens because of our own stupidity, sometimes it happens because of circumstances around us, maybe things that we didn't even cause, maybe things that were done to us. Man, the list is long -- right? --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Mark Yarbrough: -- of why that occurs. But, yeah, for me, sure. I have one that I wrote about in the book, and I've got thousands of others that I could talk about.

But I can even remember a time in high school -- I'm gonna go way back here. I grew up in a phenomenal home, heard about Jesus. And I was never running from the Lord per se, but, you know, it was that moment where it just wasn't as vibrant as it needed to be. And in some high school years, I had a really good lifelong friend that took a turn in his life and made a horrible decision and drove drunk and died.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my. Wow.

Mark Yarbrough: And it devastated me. And I can remember saying in my own mind, walking with the Lord, of why he allowed this great tragedy to happen and thinking to myself, man, if I had just had a more vibrant faith, if I had lovingly confronted him, if I had -- because I could see him taking this turn in his life. And so that's a moment where I kind of went into a pit for a while.

But it was a confrontation in my own walk of faith. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to imply that it was my responsibility or had I fully done something different. We all have to commit that to the sovereign hand of God.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Mark Yarbrough: But you understand what I'm saying here.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: It was a confrontation in my faith of saying, who are we called to be so that our lives in every environment, with our family, with our friends, with neighbors, you know, when I'm at, you know, new checker training day at the grocery store -- right? -- that I've got a vibrant faith that is showing people Jesus so that the Lord can use that as he desires.

So that's a very distinct moment in my life where I can remember kind of going into, you know, a spiritual funk, if you will, and just kind of saying, "Lord, I need you to revive my faith because right now it's just blah."

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, that's interesting you shared that example, which I think a lot of us can relate to the principal of that example. Because honestly, Mark, I think sometimes when we think, okay, I want to have a vibrant faith, I want to rekindle my faith, but it's for me. It's for me so that I get this beautiful relationship with Christ --

Mark Yarbrough: Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- so that I get all the fruits of the Spirit blossoming through my life. But what I'm hearing you say too is -- I mean, yeah, that's wonderful. But there is an even higher calling in some ways, and it's that our vibrancy of faith and our fervor, it can affect someone else's life.

Mark Yarbrough: That is exactly right.

Jennifer Rothschild: I just -- I got to be honest. When I began thinking about this conversation, I didn't think of it that way. I thought, oh, this is about me, this is about every individual believer. Wow, conviction. Thank you, Lord.

All right, let's move on. Okay. So most of our listeners, they are believers in Christ, and they listen to this podcast because they do love Christ and they want to grow. So is there any believer who is safe, they're not at risk of their faith growing cold? And then I'm curious, is there a type of Christian or believer who is at greater risk of their fire dwindling?

Mark Yarbrough: Great questions. I don't think anyone is immune to this. I mean, when I look through Scripture -- outside of the Lord Jesus, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: I mean, when I look to Scripture and I see characters in the Bible -- look, life happens from beginning to end. And we know that, that it is -- we live in a Genesis 3 world. And so it is -- there is no way for us to not be prone to, again, this fallen, broken, ugly world. Things happen and our perspectives can get beaten down.

I believe the evil one longs for us to think of things of this world, he wants us to think of our own problems and inconveniences, and he wants us to dwell on pain, and we can get derailed, as opposed to set your mind on things above. Colossians 3, right?

And so I don't think there's any way to fully avoid it. There will be times in the ebb and flow of life where, man, things are phenomenal and we are on that mountaintop moment. But here's what I'm just saying, you don't live on the mountaintop all the time.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Mark Yarbrough: And it just happens. And so if he's the God of the mountaintop, he's got to be the God of the valley.

And so what can we do -- and that's why in one sense I'm asking these questions of how can we revitalize -- right? -- our faith if we find ourselves where it's not ablaze or, if we find ourselves in that moment where it is ablaze, how can we keep stoking the fire? So I think the metaphor kind of does both.

Now, in your second question, are those that are prone to this? And the answer are more vulnerable, if we will. And I'll say it this way. I'll say sure, when we are hit by the world.

And again, I'm back to that statement that I said at the beginning. Look, sometimes it's not what we've done. Sometimes it's what's done to us. I mean, my heart grieves for individuals that are wronged and have been abused and have taken the brunt of just this evil, wicked world. And that happens to every one of us in different ways and different relationships. I mean, it's just a reality.

And so, yes, there is a vulnerability, I think, in those moments. I also think that there is a vulnerability that occurs because sometimes we're just flat out stupid. I know you can't see me right now, but Mark Yarbrough's hand is raised.

Jennifer Rothschild: Like duh.

Mark Yarbrough: Yeah. Who has not had that moment where you're like, well, that was dumb.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: And in terms of my walk of faith and I create my own situations at times.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Mark Yarbrough: And so I think the Lord is gracious and patient with us. And in those moments there, when we find ourselves in that moment where all of a sudden our eyes are open and you're like, well, that was a foolish move for me, believer, child of God, to make, and now I'm suffering the consequences from it. And so how do I revitalize my faith then?

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I'm liking this. In a little bit I want to talk through this -- you know, this analogy of the fire and stoking it. But here's one question to you. I sit in a pew every Sunday that I am in town at my church, and I think also I could be at risk from the peril of the familiar. You know, like the guy making the donuts in the old Dunkin' Donuts commercial, same old thing every time. You just get so -- not bored, but you forget that -- you just don't stoke the fire because it's so familiar, and you just sit there and stare at it until it, you know, dwindles away.

Mark Yarbrough: Yeah, that's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: I've seen myself in seasons like that too. Okay. So one thing I'm curious about -- because my perspective is distinctly Western as an American. And you travel all around the world, because as I mentioned in the intro, you're president of the Dallas Theological Seminary. So I'm curious if you see this struggle everywhere, or is it distinctly American?

Mark Yarbrough: I see it everywhere. I do. But I can say this. I think it is more focused here in the West, in the U.S. And I think some of that is because -- I'm just shooting straight. Some of that's, I think, because of our bounty, because of the incredible privileges that we have.

Back to the issue of the familiar, I mean, when you even said that, I mean, it's like, look, we walk into beautiful environments and all of our needs are met. And most people that are probably hearing this podcast have really not missed a day of food. And we have shelter and we've got more than, you know, one set of clothes to change into. And those are the standards of the world.

We're kings and queens compared to many in the world, and I think that it's easy for us to be caught up in our bounty and we can become lethargic. Well, I can say this. It happens everywhere. But a lot of times when I am in parts of the world where bounty is not overflowing and -- those individuals are focused on the hope of the Gospel and the wretchedness of their life and what it means to be saved by Jesus.

Now, here's -- I'm saying all that a little tongue in cheek. It's true that that's what they do. But here's why I'm saying it tongue in cheek. And you know this, Jennifer. That's what we're supposed to do every day. It doesn't matter where we are --

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Mark Yarbrough: -- what country we live in or what our ethnicity is. If you are saved by grace through faith, we need to preach the Gospel to ourselves every day. Oh, what a wretch I am, and I have been saved by the Cross of Jesus Christ, and that needs to motivate us towards godly living every day.

And that means that if I find myself on that mountaintop or if I find myself in that valley, I'm going to go back to my identity in the Lord Jesus Christ, and that should -- see, that's a motivational -- that is an identity perspective that should move us into this vitality of our faith, whether we find ourselves in happy circumstances, bad circumstances.

Because I don't want to move -- I mean, if the Lord Jesus can have the joy set before him going to the Cross, then I can have that same perspective by the working of the Spirit in my life when I keep my eyes on eternal things.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, this podcast, Mark, is called The 4:13, and I'm cautious frequently to remind us that's not our sugar pill, I can do all things through Christ, you know.

Mark Yarbrough: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: But it's what comes before it that gives it the context and the weight, that it's in plenty, it is in nothing that we have this perspective, and so I can see there is a stripping down that refines our perspective when we do have nothing. But you're right, the real discipline of the Holy Spirit and walking in the Spirit is when we do live in bounty, to still have this vibrant faith.

And so one of the things I'm aware of as -- in our bounty that we live with, tech. Okay? Like, it's always at our fingertips. So we live in this tech culture. So I'm curious in your opinion if that affects -- well, I know it affects our faith. But I'd like to know how you think it affects our faith, especially in this area of our faith being -- dwindling a little bit.

Mark Yarbrough: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, look, I'm gonna -- I'm gonna frame this in a way of polarities here. Okay? So I am so thankful that here we are doing this, right? We're using --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, tech.

Mark Yarbrough: -- technology for the glory of God. Praise the Lord for that. Look, I am a president at a seminary, I am a professor in a Bible department, and we use technology. We have students all over the world. We offer free courses at Dallas Seminary that has over -- literally, we just crossed over a million people that are taking free courses in English and Chinese and in Spanish. We just launched in Arabic, and so --

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

Mark Yarbrough: -- even when you hear that, that's a whole 'nother episode for us.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Mark Yarbrough: We say praise God, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. Yes.

Mark Yarbrough: We get the truth of God's Word out. So technology can be used for great things for the Lord, and I'm so thankful for that. I have missionary friends, I have individuals that are serving in all countries and people groups and every tongue, tribe, and nation, and I am so thankful that I'm able to keep up and connect and Zoom. So praise God for really uses of technology.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: Here's what I can say, though. Is that in Romans 12, when Paul says, "Therefore, in view of God's mercies, do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world," we dare not forget there is a pattern of this world. And we could talk about that in a lot of different ways, but it's a pattern related to perspective of identity, what success is, what you have, what you don't have.

Now, I'm not saying that Paul had that full long list of things that I'm just now mentioning, but here's my point. Look, there is a perspective of the evil one that wants to use technology to position us against other people. Why don't I have the things that they have? Can I not -- why, Lord, do I not have the success that they do in a worldly definition of success?

And we do comparative analysis, and that has infiltrated the church. And who has the most people? And who's written the most? And who has the largest platform? And I'm going, man, Jesus had a little platform.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Mark Yarbrough: When I -- I just got back from Israel, and I was there when the war started.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, you were?

Mark Yarbrough: Yeah. That's a story.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's a whole 'nother podcast, right?

Mark Yarbrough: Oh, my goodness, that's a podcast, trust me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Mark Yarbrough: But we stood on this -- we stood on -- every time I take people -- and I'm in Israel all the time, in the lands of the Bible. And I love taking brand new pilgrims, as I call them, to the land of Israel to stand on what's called Mount Arbel and to look over the Sea of Galilee and to see Capernaum, which was, like, the headquarters for Jesus. And it's this little bitty -- little bitty fishing village. And I remind people all the time, little does not mean insignificant.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

Mark Yarbrough: And so I'm thankful -- and so here's what I'm -- I'm saying all that to remind us that technology can be used for great things. It can be used for dangerous things. It can prey upon the frailty of our souls when we think of what we don't have or what we want to be, and we get caught up in gossip and language and -- and sometimes that's not good. It's so not good for the body of Christ.

And there's a whole lot of reasons that Scripture speaks -- there's moments of boldness in being faithful and true to the Gospel. Let's not run from that. But there's a whole bunch of other times where it's like just shut up, you know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, right.

Mark Yarbrough: Let's be silent. I believe in that adage. There's a reason we got two ears and one mouth, and we need to listen and engage and not react. And that's what social media does frequently. So while we could spend a whole 'nother episode just on that topic about --

Jennifer Rothschild: Serious.

Mark Yarbrough: -- yeah, there's good and there's bad. And, man, we have sure exported a lot of bad, and I think the evil one uses it to distract us and to get us in improper behaviors for believers that is not the fruit of the Spirit.

Jennifer Rothschild: Words true right there.

You know, and you had just mentioned a little bit ago about our identity. I think the other thing that tech, especially in the area of social media, does is it plays to our flesh, and we -- it's like we're trying to make a tower of our own, of Babel, creating our own identity, our own name, when -- and we forget we -- oh, we bear the name of all names, the love of Jesus. So, yeah, I -- and I can see the more there is of me, the less there is going to be of the power of the Holy Spirit in my life. And that's what social media can do.

All right. So, like, we are convinced, I'm convinced, we're all convinced, we are all at risk of our faith dwindling. So in your book, Mark -- and as an author, I kind of get a little cringy when somebody's, "Could you list the six ways," or the five somethings or whatever. So I'm giving you warning. I'm going to ask you about the six ways. Okay? You list six ways to rekindle our faith. So you might have them before you, hopefully. If not, what can you tell us? List as many as you can.

Mark Yarbrough: Well, the first thing I want to say is this. This is not an exhaustive list. You know, when I say -- I call it -- I say six essentials for reviving your faith.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ah, essentials. Good.

Mark Yarbrough: Yeah. And so, look, these are important things. And I also want to say this. This is not a to-do list. I mean, this is not, you know, take your magic spiritual pill here and everything's gonna be okay. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying many of these things are basics, Jennifer. I mean, they really are.

So the first one that I talk about is critical to this. And I realized that there can be a kind of sarcastic view of what I'm about to say. So I say this. It's rekindled devotion, bold trust in God's Word. So I want to play the opposite side. I realize that someone can hear this and say, oh yeah, this is another read your Bible.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. That's always top of the list.

Mark Yarbrough: Oh, and I get it. But what I'm trying to do here in this context -- because obviously I would never tell someone don't not read your Bible, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Mark Yarbrough: I mean -- but what I'm trying to get us to do is to think about what is Scripture? That's a different topic. And I'm saying, look, I get it. Man, when the world beats you up and you find yourself -- and again I'm going to use that language -- right? -- of a spiritual plateau or a spiritual funk -- stay in the metaphor. You're looking at the fire, and the coals are still there, but it's kind of covered up in ashes. It's not ablaze.

And that's kind of how that whole metaphor started. I went camping and somebody -- we were sitting at the morning fire. The night before it had been ablaze, and someone said, "That's my fire." And they looked at it and it was the coals covered up by ashes. That's how I got into this metaphor.

And so when I use this, the essential number one to rekindle your devotion is have a bold trust in God's Word. I spend a lot of time in the book reminding us, guys, we say that so nonchalantly. I mean, we literally just say, oh, yeah, it's God's Word, it's the Bible. And I'm going, it's God's Word. I'm purposefully slowing down to say that. It's God's Word.

The claim of Scripture that we get in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 in particular, Paul uses this powerful little phrase. I mean, he opens it up in making this charge to Timothy and he says, "Pasa graphe theopneustos." I know that it sounds like something you need to go see your podiatrist about, right? I got the pasa graphe theopneustos, right? But it's this powerful little Greek phrase. That's what he wrote it in, that was his language.

And he's reminding Timothy, look, these words in Scripture, all Scripture is God-breathed. He uses this powerful language to shock Timothy and say Scripture, the Bible, these words are the very exhale of God. It's the very breath of God. It's a compound word that he chooses to use here. It's the exhale.

You know, when every one of us talk -- here I am talking. I'm talking by exhaling. You are talking by exhaling. You cannot speak by inhaling, you know. I mean, you're gonna sound --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: -- like you got a major problem and you're gonna get lightheaded, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Mark Yarbrough: And so Paul uses this language of saying it's God's exhale on the page. Here's my point. This is not a, hey, read your Bible. I'm trying to get us to pause and say, let's never forget that God has spoken.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Mark Yarbrough: And that's what I'm trying to get us to do. I'm trying to get us to slow down in the midst of the moment where we're saying, man, my fire is not ablaze. I want to say, let's keep reminding ourselves that we have access to the very exhale of God.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh, word. Okay, good. Give me another one.

Mark Yarbrough: Okay, so that's where I'm trying to go here. So this is not just a -- obviously it leads to an application -- right? --

Jennifer Rothschild: Sure.

Mark Yarbrough: -- of some to-do, but that's not where I'm starting. I think one of the things that we need to see a lot of times, Scripture says, hey, this is not an issue of to-do. Before you can get to-do, you need to stop and think. Remember what holy Scripture is. So that's one. Okay?

Let me just hit some of these rapid fire, if you're okay with it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: You okay with that?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah. I'd love it.

Mark Yarbrough: 'Cause, I mean, every one of them are -- like I said, we could do an episode on every one of these, you know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, because they're all essentials, yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: That's right. Yeah.

And so the second one that I talk about is I say rekindle dependence.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.

Mark Yarbrough: Total God reliance. Total God reliance. And so what I tried to do in that chapter, I went to a real familiar couple of verses in the book of Proverbs that -- you know, I'm like, Proverbs 3:5-6. If there was, like, a t-shirt version, you know, like the --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. The Hobby Lobby verse?

Mark Yarbrough: There you go, ma'am. That's it. It's Proverbs 3:5-6. And so many people can rattle that one off, you know, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding."

Okay. So I walk us through that one, and I call it -- you know, Proverbs presents for us the reminder that we are all called to have refrigerator trust. And you're like, what in the world does that mean?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: Okay. As a father of four, my kids are all grown and out of the house. In fact, last week -- just go ahead and say congratulations, because I became a grandfather last week.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yes. It's the best.

Mark Yarbrough: Oh, my goodness.

Jennifer Rothschild: I've heard people say the reason you do not kill your teenagers is because grandchildren will come eventually.

Mark Yarbrough: There you go.

Jennifer Rothschild: So there you go.

Mark Yarbrough: I always tell people if I would have known it was going to be this much fun, I would have skipped right over to the grandchild era, you know.

Jennifer Rothschild: A to the men. Gotcha. Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: So a big giant shout-out to my little 10-pound, 8-ounce born. How about that? Oh, my goodness.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's not little, by the way, Mark.

Mark Yarbrough: No. I just tell you, he came out shaving. I'm telling you, this kid --

Jennifer Rothschild: He's a manchild.

Mark Yarbrough: -- was huge, I'm telling you. So a big shout-out to my grandson Cameron. You know, that's his name.

And so anyway, I talk about refrigerator trust. Because when my kids were little, by the time they were, like, little Weeble Wobbles and they could barely sit up, and the head's like a pumpkin and they're gonna -- if they lean too far, they're gonna fall over, I'd set them up on top of the refrigerator. And I know you're like, okay, this sounds real dangerous. And I would put my hands out right in front of them, right in front of them, just inches away.

And you know what I wanted them to do. I wanted them to trust me. I wanted them to come to me. I wanted them -- I'm trying to establish a principle in their life to say, hey, I'm -- by God's grace, I'm always going to be here. I'm never going to drop you. These hands are here for you. I want them to establish that so when we hit the very difficult training years of teenage and they're moving into that adulthood, I'm like, hey, Dad's here. I'm not gonna -- I'm not gonna leave. I want to be trustworthy and reliable in your life.

And I use that as a picture of this call in Proverbs 3 of trust in the Lord with all of your heart. And there's a real simple formula in this. I mean, it's that I've got to be all in in my trust. It's everything plus nothing equals something, and that something is really big. And you know where this is going because you know the verses. It's everything. I mean, I've got to be all in. I've got to trust God with everything. It's not partial trust; it's 100% trust. He asks me to submit myself to his hands.

I'm on the refrigerator and his hands are open. He's saying you've got to trust me. I'm never gonna drop you. I am always here. My ways may be strange to you, they may be certainly sovereign to you, you don't always understand it, but I'm right here. And what that means is that when I trust him, I cannot depend on my own understanding.

And so we just walk through this passage to say that, look, we can choose to live our life with complete reliance on ourselves and our own resourcefulness and see where that leads.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: Okay. Now, when I am out talking and preaching and teaching on this, I'm saying, "And by the way, please raise your hand if you know where it leads."

Jennifer Rothschild: Right?

Mark Yarbrough: And then if people are honest, you know what they're doing. They're raising their hand saying, Nothing but trouble.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: Right. I mean, because all those mistakes come when we're doing our own thing without seeking the will of God. Or we can trust the Lord for everything, in all you do, and resist the urge to lean on our own understanding.

And there's a promise at the end of this one that this is one where I'm definitely involved in -- you know, we can't be involved in the name it and claim it world to danger, but there are some things -- God makes it very clear. He says, look, if you trust me and you're not leaning on your -- I'm going to make your paths straight.

Now, that doesn't mean it's going to be easy; it means it's going to be worth it. It means that he is going to lead us in his way. He is going to be with us in the difficulties of life. And so we get that not just in the book of Proverbs, but that's a huge biblical theme. I'm gonna claim that one because that's what God says.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: And so anyway, my point of this is is this is not a to-do per se. It is remember where God asks us to position ourselves as little children.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it. It's a posture, a heart posture.

Mark Yarbrough: It is a heart posture, isn't it? So bottom line -- I mean, I can zip through the rest of these. It's rekindled love, having an authentic compassion for others. Something happens when we get out of ourselves and we go and serve. It does something to us. So that one is -- I do move us towards the blessings of God in our lives, and then carry those out.

The fourth one I talk about of rekindled holiness. And by that I'm talking about striving in our character of this ugly world in which we live. The fifth one that I hit is one that ties a lot of this together. It's servanthood. It is that greater position of humility.

And then the last one that I hit is called rekindled zeal. It's having a burden for the world. It's Psalm 67, that God has blessed us in order to bless the nations. And he has poured his grace into our lives and so we are all in the position of grace recipients. And that means we're under the mandate to be grace givers. And so again, it's that call to remember what God has done for us.

So these essentials goals, they're not, again, just to-do lists. Part of it is to pause and remember what God has done, to think strategically and accordingly. I have a --one of my mentors of the faith, that was a longtime professor here, had a massive impact in regard to the body at large and the church at large back in the day. And his name was Howard Hendricks.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. We know Howard Hendricks. Okay.

Mark Yarbrough: And I'm telling you, one of my mentors, and just huge impact in my life. And we traveled together and taught together. And I'll never forget him. He had all these things, and we talk -- we still talk about it today here at Dallas Seminary, these profisms. He would -- everybody just called him "Prof."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, okay.

Mark Yarbrough: And -- kind of like "Yoda," you know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: I'm telling you, he was phenomenal.

And so Prof had these quips, these statements, but they were huge. And I can remember him popping into my office. He'd say, "Yarbrough" -- he'd always call me "Yarbrough." "Yarbrough, don't you forget, the Bible was not written to satisfy your curiosity; it was written to change your life." And I'm still trying to emulate that.

I need to go to God's Word not to just satisfy my thinking. And we're all about facts and figures, and I want people to know the Bible better. I want them to be able to structure, I want them to be able to talk about it and know what God has said, there's no doubt about it. But if we're not moving towards life change, if this is not an internalized, I want to go back to the basics over and over again.

And that's in many ways these essentials. That's why I'm calling them essentials.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: Because -- you know, I want to say let's go back to the basics and let's hit these all over again. But it's not for the sake of doing; it's for the sake of being, remembering who we are and what God has revealed in order to change our lives.

So if we find ourselves in this moment where, man, my faith is not on fire, I want to go back and hit that pause button and say, God, you have spoken. You have called me to a position of dependence. You have asked me to love others, because through that I remember how much you love me. You've asked me to model a character before the world. You've asked me to stand in that position of humility, because when I do, that's doing exactly what Jesus did.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, it is.

Mark Yarbrough: And you want me to see that this is not about me, that you have blessed me in order to bless others. You have blessed me in order to bless the nations. And so that's why I want us to hit these six essentials. I could add to this. I could probably put another ten things on this list --

Jennifer Rothschild: Of course, yeah.

Mark Yarbrough: -- you know, but my publisher gave me a page count. How dare them, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, this way you're guaranteed another book.

Mark Yarbrough: There you go.

Jennifer Rothschild: But here's what's fascinating. Yeah, because I could go on and on too with you, Mark, and we're about to hit our last question. Because I'm listening to the list and thinking, oh, he didn't include prayer, he didn't include this.

Mark Yarbrough: Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: But you don't have -- these are essentials only -- because you're talking about identity and heart and motivation more than a formula and a to-do list. So prayer is gonna be a natural outgrowth of all of this. There's so many things that will be. And I recognize you cannot compress everything. You have to select out.

So let's get to this last question mark, because there -- even though you've made it very clear -- and I agree -- it is not a formula, it is not a to-do list. But we've got some listeners who are like, okay, I get it, but give me one thing. I am a concrete thinker, feeling a little overwhelmed, recognizing I need to get my fire going again.

And I understand it's a heart thing, but can you just give me one, Mark? Tell me which one of these could I start, that I haven't done in a while, when this podcast ends?

Mark Yarbrough: Yeah. I tell you what, I'm going to start with the first one. Because I really do believe that if we come to Scripture with that posture of, God, speak to me. Mold my heart. Lord, if I have become calloused in my thinking, in my actions, in my perspective of what I think I don't have, Lord, please re-form me. Purge me.

I'm gonna go back. I made reference to that Romans 12, right? Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but what? Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. How do we renew our mind? We renew our mind when we let God's Word pour over us. Now, we can do that -- see, here's the trick. You and I know this. We can do that in a calloused way that turns into a robotic, "I'm just gonna do it" --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Mark Yarbrough: -- versus having the posture that says, Lord, you have spoken. Let me acknowledge that, and by your Spirit speak to me. If we do that, it is transformative. Because I think I could argue that these other things that I'm asking us to think about, if they're not falling in line with the acknowledgement that God has communicated in Holy Scripture, that it is the inspired, inerrant, authoritative Word of God, that if we don't acknowledge that, nothing else is going to fall in line.

So that's the one where I would say it's not just, hey, get a Bible reading plan and get at it, as important as that may be, it's hold your Bible in your hand and praise God that he has spoken, that he has invested in you, and ask him to speak anew and afresh. That is the greatest way to get that fire going again and to let all these other things trail behind.

KC Wright: You heard Mark. Hold your Bible in your hand. Go ahead, we'll wait. Go get it right now. You got it? Okay. Hold it, look at it. Feel those pages. This book you hold in your hand is the very breath of God. And when we finish, open it and ask God, "By your Spirit, speak to me."

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. I love that. And tell God that you really want to renew your trust in his Word. And praise him. Because, sisters and brothers, he has spoken to you. I mean, that's how important you are to him, that he actually speaks to you through his Word. I think that is big time amazing.

KC Wright: Big time amazing. And, hello, the teacher, the Holy Spirit of Truth. No one can teach the Word better than the teacher who wrote it.

Go to the Show Notes now at 413podcast.com/403 to review this entire conversation and get connected with Mark's books.

This was a great day. Once again, we don't want to leave. We don't want to leave you. It's been such a great day at The 4:13, not just because Mark was with us, but also because you were with us.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: Thank you so much for making us a part of your day. We love and appreciate you more than you'll ever know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: We are so beyond thankful that you're a part of The 4:13 family. So until next week -- I know, it's gonna be a long time -- keep that fire going through the power of the Holy Spirit. Stay in the Word. There's life in the Word. You can because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and KC: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Stephanie, we're done. Are you done? Are you done with your ironing? We're done. All right, Stephanie, finish up that blouse. We're done.