4:13 Podcast: Can I Disconnect From the Digital To Be More Present? With Hannah Brencher [Episode 350]

Hannah Brencher: All of the notifications, all of the emails, all of the news stories coming in and us trying to digest these things, when in actuality we were not made for that. We were made for longer form, we were made for bits and pieces to be able to slowly digest things. And so there is a numbing quality to taking in that information at once. There's no way that we can eventually become numbed or ruled by our emotions when we're just constantly letting things in and not being a gatekeeper to what is getting inside.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, 4:13ers, brace yourself for what I am about to tell you. On average, most people engage their phones about 2,600 times a day. Evidence shows that we turn to our devices whenever we feel alone, tired, or in need of affirmation. But what could we gain if we unplugged? Well, today you're about to find out. Author Hannah Brencher is going to show you how to recognize the warning signs of phone overreliance and how small attainable changes one hour at a time can connect you to what matters most.

All right. Stay connected until we're done. Here we go.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, friends. That was KC Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. And it's two friends here under the stairs in the podcast closet talking about one topic, with zero stress.

KC Wright: Oh, yes. I love that part.

Jennifer Rothschild: So if you're feeling any stress, just take a deep breath. Put it on hold. If you really need to feel stressed, you can do it when we're done. But for now, just relax and let's have a family conversation. We're going to talk today about something that's really relevant to all of us. And I will say, I had to kind of check my stress at the door because I had just been to the dentist.

KC Wright: Uh-oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: I don't like the dentist. I don't like the dentist at all. I mean -- I'm sorry. I like Dr. John, my dentist. He's the only reason I actually have teeth that are still in my head, because I do not like the experience usually.

KC Wright: Now, with me, I'm the opposite. I love going to the dentist.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's crazy, KC.

KC Wright: I love me a good cleaning. I feel born again.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.

KC Wright: Actually, I went just last week. And I told him, I said, "Hey, I want a cleaning" -- they do it so many months. I said, "I want a cleaning every three months."

Jennifer Rothschild: No way.

KC Wright: Because I just love the feeling, I love the experience. But I'll tell you what. This is a true story.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah?

KC Wright: I had to be at the dentist the other morning at 8:00 AM for a teeth cleaning, and I'm convinced that I passed Jonathan Roumie on the road. And if you don't know who he is --

Jennifer Rothschild: No, I don't know who he is.

KC Wright: Okay, he plays Jesus --

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.

KC Wright: -- from The Chosen. Which Elly and I are obsessed with The Chosen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes?

KC Wright: You have to watch -- we go to the movies, we watch it on the app. We're obsessed. And you know what? This is a really good problem to have when you have a 14-year-old daughter and at night you're like, "Elly, shut off Jesus and get to bed." I mean, this is a really good problem.

Jennifer Rothschild: Now, wait a second. Do you really think it was him that you passed?

KC Wright: No, it was not him.

Jennifer Rothschild: He just looked like Jesus?

KC Wright: But these are the side effects of watching too much Chosen. You're thinking, I think that guy was -- was that the Lord? I don't know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, listen, if you're seeing Jesus -- well, actually, I was going to say that's very good. But my friends, we're actually seeing Jesus everywhere. So you know how with Jeeps, you get ducked?

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, KC's been getting Jesused.

KC Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: You got to tell them what happened. Because one just fell on your computer.

KC Wright: I have a friend -- and she's a sweet girl -- and her name is Kaitlyn, and she attends our church. And she is always doing little things just to spark joy. She is a hoot. And she loves the 4:13 Podcast, by the way.

Well, anyway, one day I was leaving church, and she had purchased -- wait for it -- 200 ducks, and she ducked my Jeep. So when you're a Jeep owner, people put ducks on your Jeep, and you put ducks on other people's Jeep. I'm not going to go there. Anyway, it's real cute. But she ordered 200 ducks from Amazon and put them all over my Jeep. Well, I leave church the other day, and I go out to my Jeep and she's covered them with these little baby plastic Jesus figures that says "Jesus Loves You," and it's Jonathan Roumie once again from The Chosen.

And then I was actually in my office this morning before I came to record with J.R. for the podcast, and I'm sitting there in my office praying and I start looking around my office. She has placed these little bitty plastic rubber Jesus figurines all over. And I'm like, This is a hoot. It's hilarious. So anyway, I grabbed a handful and I gave them to each one of the gals here at the headquarters of Jennifer Rothschild Ministries. So all the gals have one, and now I have them all over the studio.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and you have them in these foam things. We have foam in front of us, and you had Jesus sitting in one of the foam and he fell on your computer.

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, we've got Jesus everywhere. What's funny is, though, you know, when you first handed me the Jesus, I was like, oh, my gosh, is he serious? Because you don't want to act ungrateful for Jesus. It was hilarious. Anyway, we've been Jesused around here.

KC Wright: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: You're about to be Jesused where you are, too, through this conversation.

KC Wright: Hannah Brencher is a writer, TED speaker, and entrepreneur. She founded The World Needs More Love Letters, a global community dedicated to sending letter bundles to those who need encouragement. I love that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

KC Wright: She's been named as one of the White House's Women Working to Do Good. Hannah has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, the Chicago Tribune, just to name a few. She lives in Atlanta with her husband, Lane, and their adorable daughter. Today, she's a 4:13er here just for you. Here's Hannah and Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, Hannah, this subject is really relevant, I think to all of us, so I'm just going to start diving in the deep end. Okay? So when did you realize that technology for you was becoming, like, this all-consuming thing? Were there symptoms? What triggered you to realize, uh-oh, this may be overwhelming?

Hannah Brencher: Yeah. I think it wasn't -- like, it wasn't like an overnight realization, but more so slow and gradual day by day, month by month, year by year being so hooked into technology. And I think the interesting thing about tech, if you know, like, it's this socially acceptable thing that we all have in our hands. And so it was harder to point out and say, like, hey, I feel like there's a problem here. I feel like this thing is making me feel more disconnected or over-stimulated or just like really exhausted.

And so there were definitely warning signs. I think those warning signs were, you know, feeling that exhaustion that I just couldn't shake, constantly feeling like I couldn't really focus the way that I used to be able to focus. You grab your phone and then all of a sudden you're like, wait, what was I even reaching for and, like, what was I trying to do? I think especially with COVID, I wanted to connect in person less and I wanted to connect on my phone more. I think there was something about, oh, I have all these text threads going and so there's no way that I'm lonely, there's no way that I'm not keeping up with my relationships.

And then overall just this feeling of just not feeling like I could be fully present with my people, in my quiet time. In areas where I used to have that attention span, I felt like just kind of all over the place and knew something needed to shift.

Jennifer Rothschild: Super interesting. Because to me, technology in some ways is like food. It's not like we can just say, okay, I'm never going to eat again. We have to learn how to manage it because we use it, it's part -- there's good things about it. And we're going to talk about that in a minute. But it's just kind of like -- as I heard you describe that, it's kind of like overeating. Suddenly you get to a point, you're like, wait a minute. I don't think I feel good. And then you have to kind of deconstruct the reason.

And one of the things you said, which I thought was super interesting, that when you were overly plugged in, you say that because you were feeling everything, you ended up feeling nothing. So I'm going to repeat that because I want to make sure we all heard that. Because you were feeling everything, you ended up feeling nothing. Okay, so unpack that. What do you mean by that?

Hannah Brencher: I think it's a lot of the way that a lot of us feel. Think that we are being hit from every angle with news, with media, with social media, that our brains were not designed or wired to take in this much information at this fast of a rate. And so, of course, I wanted to feel things. Especially, like, as a Christian, I want to be compelled to move, to move with compassion. But I felt that sense of compassion eroding and kind of being replaced with a sense of apathy, kind of a sense of anger over things that should not have made me angry, but should have moved me towards benevolence.

And so, yeah, I think that's a direct result of all of the notifications, all of the emails, all of the news stories coming in and us trying to digest these things, when in actuality we were not made for that. We were made for longer form, we were made for bits and pieces to be able to slowly digest things. And so there is a numbing quality to taking in that information at once. There's no way that we can eventually become numbed or ruled by our emotions when we're just constantly letting things in and not being a gatekeeper to what is getting inside.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's so interesting. I wanted you to talk about that, because I do think that is a big red flag that sometimes we don't even realize. But if you think about it, Hannah, like, if this were your physical front door, you wouldn't be opening it 75,000 times a day to let every --

Hannah Brencher: Right?

Jennifer Rothschild: -- single thing in, right?

Hannah Brencher: Yeah. It's so true.

Jennifer Rothschild: But we do it through technology.

So in your book also you describe -- there's some very interesting things, my people, you -- I'm going to highly recommend that you get this book, because super interesting things. But one of the things, Hannah, that you describe as you're on your journey, you use the term "growing disconnect." So talk to us about what growing disconnect was to you.

Hannah Brencher: Yeah. I think it's the irony of the age that we live in. We are arguably more connected than we have ever been before, and yet we are more disconnected than we have ever been before. And so I use the term "growing disconnect." That was something that -- it was a way to describe how I was feeling of just, like -- with being unable to be present in these spaces where I did desire to be present, it just felt like that disconnect was looming larger and larger from, you know, my daily relationships and, like I said, not really wanting to have to meet up in person if it was easier to do it over the phone.

You know, my relationship with my husband, like, I would never say that we were actually, like, disconnected, but there were plenty of evenings where you get to the end of a long day, we would sit down to watch a show, and look over at each other and we were both on our phones while watching the show. And it's not to say that that is bad or wrong or that -- I want to be very careful in, like, not telling people this is how you have to do it. Because life is hard, and you get to the end of the day, and however you need to unwind is how you need to unwind.

I just personally felt like this feels more disconnected than it feels connected. And I would rather get to have conversations with him or be intentional about date nights with him. Or if we are watching something, let's both be present in watching that so we can engage with it, so we can discuss it, because the double screening doesn't ever really work out that well. You can't fully pay attention.

And so, yeah, that disconnect just seemed to be spreading farther and farther, especially without reigning in any of those habits or those rhythms or stopping to say, okay, why am I so connected in the first place? Why do I always have to be checking my phone? What is the root issue here? Very much like you were saying, overeating. If we take everything out of our diet, soon enough we will be binging on those foods because we told ourselves we couldn't have those foods or those foods were bad. I think it's the same thing with the phone. It's like taking it away entirely is not going to solve the problem. But I was seeing that if I wanted to cure this disconnect, I was going to have to get to the root of why I was disconnecting to begin with.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's so interesting. And then that would involve some boundaries with your disconnect to the phone, to technology. And we're going to talk about that in a minute because I love that you're being so balanced with this, Hannah.

And I'm also curious -- so you mentioned a little bit about relationships. I'm curious, how was your faith impacted by your relationship with technology?

Hannah Brencher: You know, that was -- it's interesting being on this side of it now, because I don't think when I first stepped into the challenge of unplugging for 1,000 hours -- like, I wouldn't say that I didn't think my faith would be involved, because I know my faith is involved in everything, but I guess I didn't realize how disconnected I actually felt in my faith until I started unplugging. And I think it wasn't that God had changed, but that I had become less attentive over time, less willing to sit in stillness.

And I think what I started to do, that I think a lot of us do, is I gradually let in more and more noise about Jesus. And it was sermons, and it was podcasts, and it was commentary. But I wasn't sitting in the Bible for myself to learn about Jesus. Like, I always had to have some kind of companion noise to go with it.

And so I -- you know, over on the other side of thousands of unplugged hours later, I mean, my faith is more vibrant than it has ever been before. I feel like it's richer and it's deeper. And it's honestly at a level that I didn't even know was possible, but it's because I have cultivated stillness and the willingness to listen and the willingness to meet with God, not because I need him to give me a nugget of wisdom to share with other people, but just because I'm looking to him to be my lifeline, to fill me up, to be my God, you know?

And for a while I guess I didn't even realize that I had lost that necessarily or my faith in some ways had just become a little bit commodified, like it was packaged up for other people, but what was left for me at the end of the day?

Jennifer Rothschild: That's an encouragement. In some ways -- when you said companion noise, I think we get so used to it that we don't even notice. So I'm grateful. That's a good encouragement for us just to pay attention, because sometimes it can be -- which, of course, I love podcasts. And I'm a Bible teacher. All these things are good, but they're not a substitute. They should be something that enhances, but not substitutes, and so they need to be used to serve. But I think sometimes they become, like, this sugar rush. I got it. I'm good. Let's move on. So, wow, you're really giving us a good -- lots of food for thought.

I'm curious, too, as you describe that, so do you think that technology really kind of bumps up against or fights against abundant life, you know, that Jesus talks about in John 10?

Hannah Brencher: You know, I think -- yes, I absolutely think that it can. And I want to be careful because I know every person is different and so...

Technology is not that. Technology is a tool, and it can be a very beautiful tool. I mean, technology is the way that we are even having this conversation today and that ears are getting to listen into it and be encouraged through it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Hannah Brencher: But I believe -- like, all throughout the Bible you see Jesus and you see these examples of God that are so wrapped and intertwined with presence and true presence in daily life. Like, Jesus was somebody that was highly present, highly available. He was often telling his disciples, like, Come away with me. Get away with me. Get away to a desolate space and a place that was away from the noise.

And so it was interesting how the more that I dug in and just -- I spent a lot of time in that unplugged year in the Gospels just reading line by line the stories of Jesus, the way that he worked, the way that he operated, the way that he felt, the way that he responded to people, because that is what he asks of us. He says, Come and follow me. Learn from me. See how I did it. And I really wanted to get close to that and be able to be an imitation of that.

And so the more that I stepped into the present moment, the more that I just rooted my heels into the good and the hard and the holy that was right in front of me, the more I did experience that abundance. And it's a thing that I can't even fully, like, describe with words. It's just something you have to feel for yourself, that when you can get past that initial discomfort of not being on your phone or not being constantly plugged in, that, I think, is what comes as a replacement. Is that abundance? Like, I have had so many moments over unplugging where I'm like, this is what it's for. This is it. This is that abundant life that Jesus has called me to. But it is contingent on me being present, me being in the moment, me seeing God move and operate all around me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Which you can't always see if your eyes are on a screen. And so I think too -- the reason I keep drilling down on this is is because I think this is so pervasive in my life, in all of our lives, many of our lives, that sometimes we're just not aware. So one of the things you mention in your book, too, that I want to ask you about, you talk about checking in with ourselves. Because that's kind of what you're doing here, you're kind of saying, hey, let's become a little more present where we are, let's become a little more self-aware. So you talk about checking in with ourselves instead of checking out by picking up our phones.

Hannah Brencher: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Tell me what you mean by that.

Hannah Brencher: Yeah. So for a long time when I would pick up my phone at the end of the day, or in the little moments of my day, I thought that that's what I was doing, I was checking in. I was checking in on emails, I was checking in on social media, I was checking in with friends via text message. And I had to come to grips with the reality that I wasn't necessarily checking in; I was checking out. I had to come to grips with the fact that when I wake up in the morning, if the first thing that I do is grab my phone, like, what is the point of that? Why do I need to check in immediately with what's happening on a screen when I should just be checking in with myself, checking in with God?

And, you know, I think there's a beautiful example of it in Psalm 42, which is a psalm that I think a lot of us probably almost know by heart, where the psalmist, he says to himself, "Why are you downcast, O my soul?" And what I think is really beautiful about that -- it's like later in the psalm, you see the psalmist fix his eyes back on God where they belong. But before that happens, he has a check-in with himself. That's what that is. He is checking in with his soul and saying, What is going on here? Why are you downcast?

And I think that's the missing puzzle piece for a lot of us, it's like -- to be able to check in with ourselves, to be able to say, What's going on? or, Why am I feeling that way? Or when we are plugged in, to be like, ooh, why did that post just make me feel that? Or why do I feel so much anxiety checking my email? And, like, paying attention to those feelings and being able to check in to say, like, how are we doing? What do we need? What would be something kind that I could do for myself today? You know, and I don't believe that those things are selfish; I think that they're necessary. I think that -- you know, it's not an all-pervasive, all-day, me, me, me, but it's more so like, what do we need? How do I partner with myself to be able to get through this day?

And it leads to so much more fruit, I think, too, in our relationship with God, because if we can check in with ourselves and be like, oh, okay, well, I'm feeling angry, or I'm feeling envious, or I'm feeling jealous, or whatever that is, then we can make that note to say, okay, can I bring that to God? Can I wrestle with that in my quiet time? Can I get to the root of this thing rather than just numb out from it or not take the time to check in? And I want any person that is listening to know, like, you are worth that check-in. You are worth checking in with yourself and asking, like, What's up? What's going on? Like, are we doing okay?

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow, that's good stuff.

You know, sometimes I think, Hannah, we -- it's habit that we don't do that, because it's easier to pick up a phone, right? So it's habit. But I also think sometimes it's fear. So I'm curious your opinion. You know, there may be people listening right now, they're like, oh, man, I want to unplug some more. You know, and in a minute we're going to also talk about your 1,000-hour challenge that you did. So we're going to talk about the practicality of unplugging.

But somebody who's listening and they're already feeling a little edge, like, mmm, I'd kind of like to do this, but, oh, my gosh, I am terrified of it. So what are some of the common fears that people feel when we think of possibly unplugging, and then how can we deal with those fears?

Hannah Brencher: Yeah, so there are a lot of fears that go with it. You know, like there's actually a phobia, it's called nomophobia, which is the fear of not having your mobile device. So we actually even have a word for it now. And so I acknowledge all those fears. I think we have become so digitally connected that it's like people can't fathom going anywhere without our phones.

Like, I remember when I was in college, and I think the iPhone had maybe just come out or -- actually, I don't even know. It might not have been the iPhone. But I just remember having this vivid memory of going to the gym on campus and leaving my phone behind, like, not bringing my phone with me. And so I'm like, okay, there was a time where we did not bring these things with us everywhere, we left them behind, and they were there for, like, emergency use and keeping contact with one another.

And so I do think there is a level of fear for the fact that we feel like it always has to be with us. And so conquering that fear, along with the fear of, like, okay, well, if I power down or if I put the phone away, I'm going to miss something, I'm going to miss out. And that's where I want to be clear in saying, like, I am not proposing an all-or-nothing approach. This is not an overhaul, this is not throwing the phone away or going to live off on a commune.

It's just asking yourself, okay, instead of taking this away from yourself, taking away technology, can you add to your life through presence? Can you add to your life by claiming some of your time back and putting it in the proper places for the things you said you wanted, whether that was to be more present with your kid, to have a more vibrant time, to spend time praying for other people. Whatever that thing is, can you trade in some of the connectedness to claim that thing?

But, yeah, it's uncomfortable. I'm not going to say it's not. I'm not going to say that it ever becomes less uncomfortable, because it really does feel like you are going against the grid and the norm. But, gosh, there's so much sweetness, and that's why I always use, like, the currency of an hour. It's like you don't have to unplug for eight hours today. But, like, could you unplug for one? And what would that look like? You pick something to do, you turn off the phone or you put it away. And when you come back to the phone, it will all be there and you will have missed out on nothing, but you will have gained something that was really valuable to you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's good. And, you know, I know there's some moms listening and their first thought is, no, no, no, I cannot, because my people, my people need me. They will survive.

But I think it's also, Hannah, you just communicate, just like we had to in the old days. Hey, I'm not going to be available for two hours. If it's an emergency, blah, blah, blah. But just communicate. And I think that might be one of our fears that we can overcome by just what we used to do, which was verbal communication.

Okay. So you've mentioned this a couple times, and I know it's piqued the interest of our listeners. Because you offered up a challenge, the 1,000 unplugged hours challenge. All right. So tell us what that was and how it went.

Hannah Brencher: So, yeah, I created a challenge for myself when I decided I wanted to be more intentional about unplugging, because I'm a big believer that you can't really manage what you don't measure. And so it would be one thing to be like, oh, I want to unplug, but, like, I had to set guidelines for myself and parameters for myself. So for me, I decided on 1,000 hours in one year, because that would equal about three to four unplugged hours a day. Which on the surface level people are like, Oh, that's manageable, I can do that. And then they dig into the challenge and they're like, Wow, that's harder than I thought it was. And I'm like, Yeah, because sleeping time does not count.

And so, yeah, it just -- what was great about that challenge, looking back, was it taught me how to go after a goal in increments rather than -- like, I think we can have very much that all-or-nothing mentality of, like, okay, if on day three I fail all the rigid goals, like, I have to start over again, you know. And this is something where it's like I have a span of a year to do this thing. And so hour by hour, I just started crossing off the bubbles. And there were definitely some times where I was like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm definitely behind, and so that would push me to be more present and more unplugged in the month ahead.

But it was a great way for me to see the progress adding up. I think when I first looked at that tracker, I'm like, this is so much time. But it's so cool to look back now and be like, every single one of these little bubbles is representative of an hour that I gained back.

Jennifer Rothschild: And did it help change your mindset and your habit once it was -- once those 1,000 years were -- 1,000 years. Sorry. Felt like 1,000 years -- 1,000 hours were over? Has it changed your relationship now and your habit with technology?

Hannah Brencher: Absolutely. It totally has. And it's also changed, I think, my relationship just kind of with, like, the currency of time that I operate by.

You know, like, I feel like my currency now is an hour. It's like where I want to -- you know, I think one of the things that connectivity has done has, like, made us very frantic with our time. We're constantly saying, "I don't have enough time." You know, like, I will often be in my quiet time with God being like, oh, I'm overwhelmed. There's so much to do. Like, I don't know that I can do it. And I feel like God always is reminding me of, like, you just have to take it moment by moment with me. Just be present with me hour by hour. I feel like the hour is my new currency.

But I also think, too, what's been really cool is that because it was adding something to my life, rather than necessarily taking something away, my phone habits changed naturally from doing that, which is oftentimes, like, the same thing that happens with eating and diet. It's like when you don't take something away, but you allow yourself to have something in moderation, like, your habits start to change with that positive reinforcement.

And so I just found myself being like, I could get on my phone and I could scroll here, but I could also spend that time reading this book or getting that workout in or catching up with a friend or getting some extra writing done. And that just became more alluring and more compelling to me, because I honestly feel the most myself when I am unplugged. That is when I feel like, oh, this is who I'm supposed to be. This is who I am meant to be. This is how God wired me to be.

And I want to be able to get into that space more and more and more, because when I turn off my phone or I put my phone away, it's almost like time expands for me where I'm like, okay, I'm not racing against this little digital computer in my pocket anymore. Like, I'm right here and I can move from task to task, and God is going to be with me in all of these things and I can feel his presence in a way that I have never felt before.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that. You know, you used the word "alluring." And what I love about that is there is an allure to our phones, to our digital connection. But what you're saying, there's something far more alluring once you engaged in the discipline, the boundaries, the time. And I love also -- and I think this is worth repeating -- this hour, your whole currency of time has changed to an hour at a time. Anything is doable, and we can process better that way.

And one of the things you have also said in this conversation and in your book -- and I want to reiterate it to make sure everyone understands. You're not saying technology is bad. You're saying there's good reasons for it, there's good in it. But it does require boundaries for most of us. So how do we set good technology boundaries?

Hannah Brencher: I think it's different for every person, and so you determine what you need or what are your hang-ups or where are the areas that you may struggle with, you know. But just some simple ways of doing it.

It's, like, you know, picking out the zones in your day where you do want to be present, whether that's a quiet time in the morning, whether you want to fight for dinner at the table, whether you want to -- like, a ritual for me that I love now is, like, getting into bed at the end of the night with a cup of tea and reading 20 or 30 pages of a book. And when I'm in that moment, I'm so content because I'm like, this is what I want to be doing.

It's not that I don't -- like, if I'm scrolling on my phone, there's always kind of this nudge in the back of my mind, I'm like, this isn't what I want to be doing. I want to be doing other things. And I think a lot of us feel that way. But experiencing that peace of like, oh, this is -- because I've created this routine and this rhythm, I'm getting to do the things I said that I wanted to do.

Another example might be, you know, going to the store, going to Target, going on Amazon and getting a good old-fashioned alarm clock. Because we are just so used to being woken up by our phones that before we know it, we're clicking on the social media, we're clicking into email. We are literally letting the fingerprints of other people get onto our day before our feet have even hit the ground. So that's another way to start to be more present.

I would say to anybody that, like, the excuse or the rationale is like, well, I can't turn off my phone because somebody might need me. I'm like, Absolutely, I get that. I get that with having kids, I get that with the state of the world. But, like, could you get a little pouch or get a little box or use a Tupperware that you already have, and maybe even write a little message to yourself on the top of the Tupperware so that you know when you're putting your phone into that Tupperware, into that box of, like, why you're doing this.

And so it's not to say when the phone rings or a text comes up and you know it's from your kid, you don't pull that phone out of the box, but you're actively adding in a transition step that is showing you, okay, I'm stepping out of this presence and into my phone use. And then when you go to put the phone back in the box, it's another transition. I am putting my phone away so that I can be present to the task that is in front of me. And when I finish this task, I can pull it out again, I can do whatever I want to do, but I will have this thing checked off the list, I will have this sense of completion.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I love how practical that is. One of the things I've done, too, is I just -- well, we all have, depending on the phone you have, the ability to do a Do Not Disturb except for favorites, you know. So you can just put those emergency people and then you can be available because they will come through when you need it. But I love that idea of just the physicality of opening the box, closing the box, moving from transitions. It's really good.

Hannah, this is really so encouraging and inspiring, and I'm grateful that God has interested you with this message. We're going to get to our last question, because I think a lot of people right now are just like, wow, yes, I want this. So here is this last question. Those were super practical, which I appreciate. And we're going to end a little more theoretical and inspirational. How can disconnecting and engaging in just the normal mundane things of life help us encounter God?

Hannah Brencher: I think God's in all of it, right? Like, he is in the normal and the mundane, and he is in the -- you know, when you see all these references in the Bible, I think for as much as we see God in the bigness, in the parting of the Red Sea, in the raising of a man from the dead, we see him in all of the little things as well, you know, in the fragrant oil that was dumped over Jesus, in the smallest nudges.

I always go back to the story of Elijah with the widow who had literally only enough to make one meal and God multiplied that. I'm like, God is in the smallest of the details and we miss him. And then we miss the nudges of what God wants to speak to us. Because make no mistake, I think he wants to speak to us about these areas of our life, about our friends, about our family members, about what we are called to step into.

And this has become one of my favorite rhythms that has come by way of unplugging as I'm doing my morning meeting and my quiet time. Just taking a moment to pause in the stillness and say, "God, who do you need me to see?" Like, "What do you want me to do with this day?"

And when I sit in the stillness, the things that come to the forefront are never the things that I would have put on my to-do list. They're never the things that are my most efficient tasks. But those are the things that honestly always make the day that much sweeter, whether it's like, hey, make muffins with your daughter today, or reach out to that friend and encourage them, or, you know, that task that you've been putting off, do that task today. And I think that God speaks through those things, that you start to realize, like, oh, all of life is the miraculous. It's not just the mountaintop moments.

And I think that's honestly something that tech has tried to take away from us. It has tried to make us believe that everything is supposed to be a highlight reel when it's not, and when the beauty -- the beauty of daily life is sitting in those mundane moments.

Jennifer Rothschild: God definitely is in all of it. We see him in the bigness, but he is also in the little things. And we miss so much if we're just staring at our phones. Tech, it tries to steal, and it makes you think that life is one big highlight reel. But life is actually right here in front of us. God is near. God is here. So don't miss him because of the shallow substitute of what is on your phone.

KC Wright: I love that she asked God, "What do you want for me today?" And she found that his plan is way better than her efficient to-do list on her phone. Oh, man, I can relate to that.

There's a lot more to learn here. She's so inspiring. So if you want get her book for free -- I know you do -- you can either win one or go buy one, right? You can enter to win one at Jennifer's Instagram right now, or go to the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/350 and we have the link just for you. And once you read the transcript, check out her book and text your BFF about this podcast. Then put down your phone and be present with your people.

You can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I know I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and KC: And you can.

KC Wright: You know, I made a rule that -- you know, I'm away from my 14-year-old girl all day at school, and when she comes home, it's on like Donkey Kong. And if she tries to talk to me, that phone of mine is slammed down.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Good for you.

KC Wright: Because, you know, you only have this little window of time in the evenings with your kid, and you don't want to have them growing up saying Dad was always on his phone.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

KC Wright: You want to lock eyes with them.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right. Be present with your people.