4:13 Podcast: Can I Find Strength in Struggle? With Justin Kendrick [Episode 354]

Justin Kendrick: The more you understand God's love for you and experience it for yourself, the more you can access God's strength for you. That the very strength of Jesus is available to us to the measure that we internalize his love for us. And so the more I understand the Gospel, the more I understand God's love for me. And the more I'm convinced of it personally, the more I can then endure, because it forces me to reinterpret my life.

Where sometimes we look at life and we go, well, this bad thing happened, this tragedy occurred, God must not be good. Well, if the Cross proves God's heart towards me, then I have to rethink how I'm interpreting the circumstances of today.

Jennifer Rothschild: The storms of life can leave you weary and weak. But today, author and Pastor Justin Kendrick will help you develop spiritual resilience that will propel you past your weariness into perseverance and peace. You are about to discover why weakness is the starting point for spiritual strength, and you're going to get a practical way to apply all of God's promises to every storm you face. So buckle up, buttercups, here we go.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, friends. Jennifer here to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living that "I Can" life along with me and KC. Because it's true, through Christ, through his power in us, we can do everything he has called us to do and be that person he has created us to be. You know the drill by now. We're under the closet, me and KC. We're in the closet under the stairs. Two friends, one topic, and zero stress. And we're talking about today finding strength when we struggle. Usually all we feel is weariness.

KC and I were just talking this morning -- it's such a beautiful day here in the middle of June, and we were just talking about what a hard winter we had. I don't know about you where you are, but we had a very hard winter. Speaking of storms, I'm talking ice. And it was zero --it was below zero a lot.

KC Wright: Oh, we had several negative degree days.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: There was one day that Elly was in a bad mood. It was on a Friday. And I said, "Elly, let me tell you something, Sugar Booger. Okay? You've got school today, but you're not going to have school this weekend." But then Monday -- I remember back in this season, Monday was President's Day. Then Tuesday they had predicted 12 inches of snow.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, right.

KC Wright: And that's going to wipe you out for the rest of the week.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

KC Wright: Anyway, I was -- who knew I was a prophet? She didn't go to school for, like, eight days.

Jennifer Rothschild: I remember that week. It was. There was so much snow and then there was so much ice. I mean, it was like Antarctica here.

KC Wright: Well, speaking of that, where we live, we have Bass Pro headquarters' Wonders of Wildlife.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: Okay? So inside this -- it's almost like you're in New York. It's amazing.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is.

KC Wright: But they have penguins in there. And the penguins are in this thing that makes them feel at home like they're in Antarctica.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's like their own little ice chest they live in.

KC Wright: How cold was it where we live? They released the penguins.

Jennifer Rothschild: Is that really true?

KC Wright: That's true. It made the news.

Jennifer Rothschild: They released the penguins? It was that cold.

KC Wright: They got to go outside and roam around. There were pictures of them waddling in the parking lot.

Jennifer Rothschild: I did not know that.

Okay. Well, speaking of penguins, let me tell you one more quick thing before we get to Justin. So this was, gosh, so many years ago. I was flying with a friend -- we were going to a ministry event -- and we were somewhere in Texas changing planes. And so because I'm blind, I always get to pre-board. Well, they take me over to the pre-board place, and there were penguins there, little penguins, because they were these goodwill ambassadors from SeaWorld in San Antonio. And so we must have been changing planes. You know, they were getting back to San Antonio. I don't know what was going on.

But anyway, I got to pet these little penguins, and they waddled and danced around me. And then when we pre-boarded, once everyone was on the plane, the flight attendant said, "Everyone please remain seated, and don't touch the penguins, but they are going to do a customary walk up and down the aisle." And they did. These little penguins waddled up and down. Flying penguins, that's what they were. Isn't that the sweetest?

KC Wright: Oh, so cute.

Jennifer Rothschild: I wish I had known that about our penguins here in town. I would have loved that. Yeah, that would have made the winter even more delightful. It would have given it some delight. Anyway...

All right. We are not going to be talking about cold weather anymore because it's lovely and sunny now --

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- in all of our worlds, and it's going to get better for you no matter what you're facing because you're going to hear a great conversation from Justin.

KC Wright: Justin Kendrick is the author of "Bury your Ordinary" and "The Sacred Us." He's the lead pastor of Vox Church, which he founded, by the way, in 2011 with a small group of friends on the doorstep of Yale University. The church has since grown to multiple locations all across New England, with the dream of seeing the least churched region of the U.S. become the most spiritually vibrant place on earth. Justin and his wife, Chrisy, live with their four children in the New Haven area.

Pull up a chair. There's room at the table for you. Here's Justin and Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Justin, we have to start with the title, because I was super interested in it. "How to Quiet a Hurricane." And here's why: because I grew up in Florida. And quieting a hurricane is a God thing, it is not a human thing.

Justin Kendrick: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I need to understand where you come up with this. What's the significance of the title "Quieting a Hurricane"?

Justin Kendrick: Oh, that's so good. Thanks for having me on, Jennifer.

Yeah, I -- you know, Mark 4 is one of those really intriguing stories in the Bible. It's a well-known story in a lot of Christian circles. Jesus speaks to a storm, right? He yells at a hurricane. And the word there in the Greek is actually a hurricane whirlwind. That's what they were facing in a little fishing boat on the Sea of Galilee, and Jesus speaks to the storm.

The intriguing part about the story is that right -- well, there's a lot of intriguing parts about the story. But right after Jesus yells at the storm and it listens, he turns to his disciples and he says, "Why were you afraid? Where is your faith?" And they're, of course, stunned, right? They're sitting there going, who is this that even the wind and the waves obey him?

But I think a takeaway for followers of Jesus today is that Jesus actually expects us to have what we need to handle storms in life. And so there's a much bigger lesson in that little story, and it's that there is a way to live a life that you have the strength to get through storms. And it doesn't always mean that Jesus takes you out of them. Most of the time in life he takes us through them.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's interesting because -- well, two things. Number one, you know, depending on what version of Scripture you read, it's like, "And Jesus spoke to the storm." Peace, peace, peace.

Justin Kendrick: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: But what you're saying is he's yelling to a raging hurricane. And I think sometimes we need to know the accuracy of that because, wow, that's a whole different thing. That's a different view of God when you know he's yelling at hurricanes and they obey.

Justin Kendrick: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. But then you say -- but then the way he speaks to the disciples indicates almost like, Hey, guys, you already have what is required to manage this.

Justin Kendrick: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Justin Kendrick: Exactly.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I don't think we realize that either, Justin, that in Christ we are equipped. So one of the things you do in your book, which I think kind of will help us get down to the root of this, you connect our ability to endure a hurricane with our understanding of God's love. So explain that connection.

Justin Kendrick: Yeah, for sure. This is really the center of the book, and I try to unpack it in the first couple chapters and then use the rest of the book to build on it. But the Apostle Paul prays a little prayer in 2 Thessalonians 3 that I think most Christians kind of skim over. He says, "May the Lord direct your heart to the love of God and the steadfastness of Christ." Interestingly enough, he uses a nautical term, that word "direct." He's talking about God being the captain of your life, the captain of your ship, and he's bringing the ship of your life into a harbor and into a house.

I love how Alexander Maclaren, one theologian and scholar, kind of unpacks this. That the language suggests a house with an inner room and an outer room. When you walk into the house, it's the love of God. And so the most important thing in our lives is to experience and then believe the love of God for us. This is the foundation of identity, this is the foundation of peace.

But then Paul tells us that these two ideas are connected, that the love of God is directly connected to the endurance or the patience or the steadfastness of Jesus. And what he's suggesting is that the more you understand God's love for you and experience it for yourself, the more you can access God's strength for you. That the very strength of Jesus is available to us to the measure that we internalize his love for us.

And so the more I understand the Gospel, the more I understand God's love for me and the more I'm convinced of it personally, the more I can then endure, because it forces me to reinterpret my life. Where sometimes, you know, we look at life and we go, well, this bad thing happened, this tragedy occurred, God must not be good. Well, if the Cross proves God's heart towards me, then I have to rethink how I'm interpreting the circumstances of today.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. This is really interesting to me. Because I just listened to a devotional this morning, and this particular devo -- I'm curious your take on this -- was talking about how we see God as our Father, that it's a family thing. And so when we sin -- now, I'm not saying that a failure to endure is sin -- okay? -- but I just want you to go here with me for a minute.

Justin Kendrick: Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So when we sin, that it's not like Jesus chases us down like a law enforcement officer, bangs on our door and says, "You broke the law." Basically what Jesus is saying is, "Hey, you broke my heart," because it's a family thing. And so they interpreted sin -- one way to look at it is a failure to love.

Justin Kendrick: Wow. That's good.

Jennifer Rothschild: So, yeah, I want your take on that, because I think it's almost the flip side of what you're saying.

Justin Kendrick: Sure. Yeah. Well, so the Apostle Paul says being justified by faith, we have peace with God, right? So this word "justification," it's a legal word. And, you know, the most basic way to grasp it is just as if I'd never sinned. And so to be justified is more than to be forgiven. To be forgiven means that I release you of the offense. To be justified means that you are actually -- it's legal. You're not guilty. The court case is over. You will never be -- you know.

And so according to the Scripture, imputed righteousness given to us through Jesus on the Cross is the great gift of the Gospel. That when Jesus died, there was an exchange. He took all my sin, past, present, future. He took all my sin, paid for it in full. The legal question is done, right? So now you are. You have peace with God through justification.

But now you're adopted into his family -- and think this is what the devotional was getting at -- where you now have relational equity with God. You build relationship. And that's built on trust. I get into that in the book where we learn to trust God, God entrusts us and he tests us so that we can build trust with him. But through that process of learning to build trust, you can hinder relationship through sin. And so sin is no longer a legal binding division of which I'm going to be penalized for punishment -- for a just God, but rather it is a relational breaking action where I am now severing relationship.

I mean, I have four kids. And when one of my kids lies to me, I don't love them less, and I don't say, "You're no longer my son," but I do say, "Hey, you broke trust," and that makes it harder for us to be in union and to be close. And so there is a great cost to sin, but it really is about not loving.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Okay, I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

Justin Kendrick: I like that.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. It was an interesting paradigm for me to think through, and I appreciate that. And what I really love that you just did here, Justin, too, is you just repeated to us the beauty of the Gospel, which the heartbeat of is love. And so let's keep talking about endurance. Because I get it. I see where you're going with this connection.

All right. So It seems like it is in short supply, which may be a love deficit, an understanding of love deficit. But you talk about how many church leaders even and church members are walking away from their faith. So tell us why you think this is and what can be done about it.

Justin Kendrick: Yeah, so good. That's a great question. Well, I think anybody that's paying attention, especially in the Western world today, in the world of church, this is not surprising, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Justin Kendrick: We are watching leaders -- and not just leaders, members, those that have been on the edges, cracking, crumbling, falling away in record numbers. And that's not really a new problem, but it has definitely amplified in the last decade for sure. And I think there's layers behind why that's happening.

But one of the most reasons is that we don't have the internal infrastructure to take a hit, to handle a storm. And I'm not trying to be harsh, and that's not the heart behind the book. It's true of me, it's true of the world we're living in, that somewhere along the line we edited suffering out of the Scripture. And this is a real American Western thing.

But, you know, most Christians operate from this assumption that says, hey, if I'm a good guy and I go to church and, you know, I pray and I give a little money, then God kind of owes me a good life. And my marriage should be good and my kids should be happy. And when that doesn't happen, I'm offended. I feel like I got ripped off and God didn't come through on his end of the bargain. This requires a significant amount of editing, right? Because it's like Jesus said, "In this world, you will have trouble." Peter said don't be surprised by the fiery trials that have come upon you, as if something strange has happened to you.

So, like, all through the Bible we're told life is going to be hard, following Jesus is going to be hard. And so I think that the goal of this book is to really kind of like -- remember those old switchboards where, you know, a telephone operator would unplug a wire and plug it in another one and unplug -- it feels like we got some of our wires crossed in terms of, like, our moment in history where -- we have a blind spot as kind of Americans and followers of Jesus, and the blind spot is we've told ourselves suffering's not coming. And now that it has come for many people, we're shocked and our faith is crumbling.

And so we got to go back to the switchboard and go, maybe some of these wires are plugged in wrong. How do we build a theology of suffering that gives us the strength to get through rather than just teaches us that we should always expect to avoid?

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, so let's do that, because -- let's say Peter's talking to us and he's saying, "Hey, why are you so surprised?" as if some strange thing has happened. So there are some people listening who are dealing with suffering, and they're like, yeah, some strange thing has happened. This isn't what I signed up for. This is not what I've been taught. How do we edit our understanding of suffering and have a biblical Christian -- biblical understanding of suffering?

Justin Kendrick: Yeah. For sure, yeah. So two things come to mind right away. And both of these I dedicate a whole chapter to in the book.

But it starts with what I call the weakness paradox. And the weakness paradox is not a real popular idea today, but Paul summarizes it in 2 Corinthians 12 when he says, "When I am weak, then I am strong." Jesus' version of this is the first beatitude, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they'll inherit the Kingdom." And so God has to bring us to the end of ourselves before he can make us strong in him. And the more we identify and actually embrace our own need and our brokenness, the more he can teach us dependence, which is a position of supernatural strength.

And so we see it in Christ himself, who as a man said, Listen, I don't do anything that I don't see the Father doing. And then he taught his disciples this when he said, "I'm the vine, you're the branch. Apart from me, you can do nothing." And again, as Westerners we think, well, I can do some things. I mean, I'm pretty talented in this and that, and I don't really need God as my center and my source, I need him to just sort of bless my marriage and my business, and he can stay out of some other things and then I'm good.

And that entire version of following Christ needs to be renovated. And we have to go back to the beginning and say actually it all starts with dependence and brokenness and a reality of my own need for God, not in one area, in all things. And when I start there, I now have given an invitation to profound strength. So that would be kind of like step one, I would say. And we can go on if you want, but that would be the first step.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. And so instead of expanding on that first step, because we have your book, I want us to go -- what's the second step then?

Justin Kendrick: Yeah. Then we have to start building out what I would call a theology of suffering. And in the book I give this a lot of different -- a lot of attention through the different chapters. But there's an element on the promises of God, how do I understand God's Word and how do I learn his promises and then apply his promise?

There's the renovating of the idea of God as my provider. Most of us, we don't actually see God as our provider; we see ourselves as our provider. And then learning what I call the new safety, which the new safety is a little different than the old safety because we're living in the most safety-conscience generation in history and we are obsessed with our cameras and our helmets and our seatbelts, and it's never enough. And I'm for cameras, helmets, and seatbelts. I don't think they're bad. I just think that we're trying to find internal security through external measures, and it's not working.

And then I really unpack what I would call sort of the bedrock of a theology of suffering. And there's no -- in my opinion, there's no more clear place in the Bible than Daniel Chapter 3. And a lot of people know the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. They won't bow down to the idol of Nebuchadnezzar, he throws them in the fiery furnace.

But there's this little conversation that they have with the king right before they're saved from the fire by the power of Jesus and everything else. But they say that our God is able to deliver us. And he will deliver us. And even if he doesn't, we're not going to bow down. And that little statement gives us what I would call sort of the three key components to a theology of suffering. And they're all big. But the first is the ability of God. That God is powerful, that he's all powerful. Do I believe in a God who is all powerful?

And then second, the goodness of God. That God is willing to spare us. That it is his will that we are blessed, that we are healed, that we are spared.

And then the third element, the wisdom of God, that he in his mysterious plan does not always immediately do what we see as the good, but that he's working behind the scenes. The equation of God's goodness is not arithmetic; it's calculus.

And so in other words, you think like, well, one plus one equals two. So God loves me, plus, you know, I should be blessed because he gave me promises, equals perfect life. Hey, why isn't that working? And so I talk to people as a pastor all the time, Jennifer, hey, if God is good, then why did my spouse get cancer? If God is good, then why -- and we all have our own version, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right.

Justin Kendrick: And we're using arithmetic to understand God's goodness, one plus one equals two. But he's using a much more complex equation. It takes into account eternity. It takes into account human choice. It takes into account demons and devils. It takes into account the broken system we live in. And so it's Y times B over X. You know, it's a much more nuanced equation, and we have to be willing to learn his math, and that is the mystery side.

So God is able, God is willing, and God is wise. And when those three things come together, we now have a theology of suffering.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, so good. Able, willing, and wise. And, you know, there's a bunch of math-impaired people listening right now who, like, totally freaked out when you started mentioning the word "calculus."

Justin Kendrick: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: But God's ways are not our ways. And so, yeah, why settle for our own feeble arithmetic that will never add up? It will never add up.

One of the things I've learned, too, Justin, I'll just -- you know, when I'm asking -- because I happen to be blind. And, of course, I've heard many conversations about healing --

Justin Kendrick: Yep. Sure.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- and, you know, all the formula that I could be healed if, et cetera. And what I -- similar to your thinking is, yes, I know God has the power. But I trust his authority. I'm not going to accept his power without accepting his authority, because his authority may deem it not best right now, so -- you know, and that's what you're saying that we see in Daniel 3.

God is so consistent, and he is so good with the way he communicates to us, and so we got to have a reduction of self and let's magnify the Word in our lives, because otherwise we will end up so stinking frustrated.

I love your message here, Pastor Justin. I love it.

Justin Kendrick: Well, that's so powerful. You said it so well. That's so good.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, this is just such a good conversation.

Okay. So in your book, though -- you describe your book as a Swiss Army Knife. Okay? So I'm a little bit of a prepper, and I like to have my stuff, so I'm a fan of a Swiss Army Knife. Okay. But you say that that's what your book is, it's a Swiss Army Knife for spiritual endurance. So explain what you mean by that.

Justin Kendrick: Yeah. You know, a lot of times, especially in our linear post-enlightenment thinking, we say, hey, you know, give me the ten steps to spiritual endurance. And I'm not opposed to that approach, but I think that biblical endurance works a little differently. It's not ten steps, it's one tool. And that tool is faith. But faith has a lot of different applications, right? And so it's like a Swiss Army Knife where, hey, I've got the file and I've got the leather punch and I've got the scissors and I've got the little tweezers, and so faith has all these different sort of applications.

But the goal of the book, every chapter is to build faith. Because the more faith I have in the love of God towards me, the more I'm going to be ushered into that inner room of the steadfastness of Christ. And so each chapter -- I've written other books where there's a whole lot of application and sort of like discussion, and that's great.

We have a free small group guide through the book that's available online, but -- and that's a good resource. But the idea behind the book is every chapter, I finish it and I go, you know what? That filled in some gaps in my faith. And then the next chapter. You know what? That filled in some gaps in my faith. Wow, I never knew how to process doubt, and after that chapter, I actually feel like I can process doubt. Right? Or I never knew what it meant to live my -- moment by moment in union with Jesus. Now I feel like I can do that.

And so each chapter, the goal is can we get your faith to that next level one more step further chapter after chapter. And I think that's how endurance grows in our life.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, almost like a muscle. The more you use it, the more it's strengthened. Yeah.

Justin Kendrick: It has to be torn, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Sadly, it has to hurt a little bit before it starts to get strong.

Justin Kendrick: Yeah. Really good.

Jennifer Rothschild: But let's go back to that boat for a minute before we get to our last question. Because Jesus just yells at the hurricane. And he then speaks to the disciples and he says, "Why are you afraid? Why do you have such little faith?" So if they were going to answer that, what would their answer be to why? Why?

Justin Kendrick: Oh, that's a great setup. They tell us. They look at each other and they say, "Who is this?" And so the reason their faith was small is because they hadn't yet grasped who he was. And again, that's kind of -- for the book, that's really what we're trying to get at, is if we can get our view of God more accurate, if we can see him as he truly is, then it really does have the power to strengthen us through the storm. And so I think that their lack of faith -- and it's us too. I'm not throwing stones at them.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right.

Justin Kendrick: Their lack of faith was a lack of vision for who was in the boat with them. And I think that's -- you know, that's been true of me --

Jennifer Rothschild: Me too.

Justin Kendrick: -- and true of most people. And so if I can get a clear picture of Jesus and then really put my trust in that -- and he's given us a lot of evidence so that we can trust him. It's not just blind faith in that sense, it is faith with lots of evidence. And so, okay, God, you've given me evidence, you've proven yourself over time, but I still have to take the step, I still have to take the step. And we don't always, you know, understand the next step before we take it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Amen. And we got to step out before the water part. All right, this --

Justin Kendrick: That's exactly right. It wouldn't be faith otherwise, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, it wouldn't. It would just be us again doing our thing.

Man, this is such a good conversation. I know our 4:13 family feels like I do right now, like we don't want it to end, so I'm thankful for the book. Yet we are going to get to our last question.

And, you know, you just really set us up for, yeah, this is how we do it, we get a vision of God. Yet I know there's some listening here going, okay, but what else? So let me end with this. Let's give our listeners -- give me, Justin, just some very practical ways that we can grow in endurance in just our everyday situation. So we got a little -- that was abstract. Get it very concrete here to end.

Justin Kendrick: So good. Yeah, so there's a whole chapter on promises. And I think for a lot of Christians, we haven't yet learned how to tap into the over 3,000 promises in the Scripture. And I tried to build out a framework in the book for why those promises belong to you.

I look at Paul's words to the Corinthians where he says that in Christ, every promise is "Yes," so we utter our "Amen" to God for his glory. And what he's teaching is -- to break it down, Jesus was the perfect man. He lived the life of absolute obedience to God, and therefore he earned a "Yes." Every promise, Old and New Testament, is a "Yes" for Jesus because of his obedience. But he took our "No" on the Cross. I don't deserve a "Yes" from God, because of my disobedience and my sin, but God took that -- Christ took that on the Cross, and he exchanged places with us, so that now his "Yes" -- that's what Paul's teaching, his "Yes" belongs to you. And if his "Yes" belongs to you, then that means every promise, right?

Isaiah, "Fear not, for I am with you. Be not dismayed, I'm your God. I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand."

"The Lord is my Shepherd" -- Psalm 23 -- "I shall not" -- every one of these -- every single fear, every single worry, every promise where Jesus says, "Don't worry about tomorrow," where Jesus says, "I'm with you always," those were not just words for the disciples; they're words for me.

And I think that's -- in terms of practical, find ten Scriptures that deal directly with what you're going through right now and then learn that those really do belong to you, and hold on to them and watch how God works in your life.

KC Wright: His "Yes" belongs to you. Every promise is for you because of Jesus. So God says, "Yes, this is for you," and you say, "Amen, it is mine in Christ." So as Justin coached us, find ten promises that apply to you, and meditate on them, and trust that they are "Yes" and "Amen" to you in Christ Jesus.

Jennifer Rothschild: Super good. And as Justin did suggest also, we need to develop a biblical theology of suffering. Just such good stuff here.

You need his book. I really think this is a great tool. And, in fact, didn't you like his description that faith is a Swiss Army Knife? I love that, because it can be applied in so many ways.

KC Wright: Yes, brilliant.

Again, we have a link to his book. And you know this part. Go to the Show Notes now at 413podcast.com/354 to get Justin's book; find a link to the last time Justin was with us, because that was really great too; and read a transcript of this entire conversation all right there.

And if you don't mind, take some time today, fill the podcast hug and give us a kind review. Keyword, kind. If you haven't already, please do that today. It makes a big difference, and we can reach one more heart for Jesus right here on The 4:13, because your words help others trust the 4:13 podcast.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: All right. It's been another week, another great conversation. I personally don't want to shut the mic off. But go trade in your weariness for spiritual strength, our friends, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

KC Wright: I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: And that means --

KC Wright: You can.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- you can.