4:13 Podcast: Jennifer's Sons Interview Her - Part 1 [Episode 391]

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, friends, Jennifer here. If you enjoy the 4:13 Podcast, you are going to love my new Hope of Heaven Tour. Kelly Minter will be with me, Point of Grace will be with me. It's one night learning, laughing. We're going to bring the Hope of Heaven to earth today. I want you to come, so get your besties, get your tickets. hopeofheaventour.com. And you might be interested in bringing it to your church or your city. Go to hopeofheaventour.com. All right, let's get to the podcast.

Well, hey, friends. For the last five years on The 4:13 and for the last 18 years at Fresh Grounded Faith Conferences, you have heard me Spill the Beans and interview guests. But today we are doing something that we have never done before. My two sons, Clayton and Connor, sat down with me for a conversation about the story behind the ministry and the heart behind the microphone. So in this two-part mini-series, you are going to hear a spontaneous, curious, revealing conversation about ministry, blindness, writing, speaking, and legacy. So here we go with part one.

It was a Sunday afternoon and I had just finished my last Fresh Grounded Faith Conference -- and Kirk Cameron happened to be there, and comedian Anita Renfroe -- and Connor asked if he and Clayton could just unpack my life and ministry. Like, I was so surprised. In other words, they wanted to interview their mother. So here we sat around the table, I was kind of tired -- you'll probably be able to hear it in my voice -- and we just looked back to the origin of ministry and we talked about all the moving parts of my life. So I shared my funniest moments and what I've learned about reading the audience when I'm speaking, especially without being able to see them at all.

So I just thought it would be fun if you guys could come along. So I'm inviting you in with me and my boys. We've saved you a seat so you can sit around the table with us. So the first voice that you're going to hear is our youngest son, Connor, and then you will hear Clayton join in. So here we go.

Connor Rothschild: All right. I started recording. This is the 3:14, the 4:13 reverse podcast. We just finished Jennifer Rothschild's final Fresh Grounded Faith, which is very exciting. Got the whole family there for the final shebang celebrating 18 years of Fresh Grounded Faith. And I don't know how many conferences it's been in total. Was it --

Jennifer Rothschild: It was 164.

Connor Rothschild: 164.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm. Over 18 years.

Connor Rothschild: And we have a lot of stats --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Connor Rothschild: -- like how many women were saved.

Jennifer Rothschild: 150,000 attended. Over 1,000 were saved, came to Christ. Over 4,000 are now in Bible studies. And my favorite number, 7,600 children released from poverty in Jesus' name with Compassion because of Fresh Grounded.

Connor Rothschild: Just remarkable.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Connor Rothschild: That's awesome.

And obviously I'm here. Clayton's also here. And I think we've kind of grown up with it, but something I was remarking on yesterday at our dinner together was, like, we've seen it change and, like, we've been behind the scenes, and so it's just really cool to kind of see the culmination of it all after 18 years.

So I'll start out with a soft ball about those conferences, about FGF. Any funny stories? A funny thing. You got 18 years, you got 100 and something conferences. What's, like, a funny story?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Connor Rothschild: If you can think off the top of your head, a funny story.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, I've got one immediately, because it was one of the most funny and stressful all at once.

So Michael O'Brien, our worship leader, was new with us. And maybe he had done two or three conferences, but, you know, he still knew the drill. But for whatever reason, this particular Saturday morning I'm presenting that morning teaching, and he's supposed to follow me immediately because we're going to do this invitation to the women to come to the front and pray, and he's supposed to play behind it and sing.

And so I'm kind of landing the plane in my message, I'm saying my final lines and I'm not hearing him on the keyboard. And so I'm still kind of lingering, like, making -- give him some time. I'm still not hearing him on the keyboard. Finally I start walking back toward the keyboard and I realize he is not here. So I literally -- and it wasn't a keyboard at that time, it was a grand piano.

So I sit down at the grand and I'm starting to play, to do his job while I'm inviting the women to come pray. And then I start singing -- I don't even remember what I start singing -- and then all of a sudden I hear this panting voice behind me. And he taps me on the shoulder, "I'm here, I'm here, I'm here."

So then I have to ease out. He sees what key I'm in. I ease out on one side of the bench, he eases in, he starts playing in the same key and leading, and I go back up to the front and start -- and I was like, "You are so fired."

Connor Rothschild: What's the story? Where was he? Did he just -- was the timing just off?

Jennifer Rothschild: He went out -- he got a phone call and he lost track of time. And he was out in the lobby. And so at that point, our conference director was Theresa Wiggins.

Connor Rothschild: She's probably chasing him down or something.

Jennifer Rothschild: She ran up, she's like, "Get in there." He has never stopped apologizing for that. It was the funniest thing, though.

Connor Rothschild: And so there was an audience and, like -- so you started playing, then you segued into letting him play. Is that what you're saying?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Like, I moved off one side of the bench and he moved onto the other.

Connor Rothschild: And did it seem like to the audience that there was, like -- like, that was intentional, or do you think they kind of could tell, like, something's probably up, but you guys played it off okay?

Jennifer Rothschild: I think they could tell something was up. Because probably he ran in panic-stricken, because I could hear him breathing behind me like he was running to get on stage.

Connor Rothschild: That's funny. You imagine that versus, like, if you were Anita Renfroe. And if you were Anita Renfroe, you would have just been like, "Where's Michael?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Exactly.

Connor Rothschild: "I need to summon Michael up to the stage."

Jennifer Rothschild: Which I would have liked to have done, except I was in such as contemplative spiritual --

Connor Rothschild: Oh, yeah. It's like the end of your phase where you're kind of like really fading in. I know the music in the background. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Like, it would have been very disruptive if I had --

Connor Rothschild: Oh, interesting.

Jennifer Rothschild: So, yeah, that was one of my funniest moments.

And then we've also had funny ones where -- you know, one time I was doing some kind of gesture like I was throwing something and all my bracelets fell off and scattered across the stage, you know. There's times when my mic pack got loose and fell between my legs on the floor.

But, yeah, the best one is definitely when Michael didn't show up for the invitation.

Clayton Rothschild: Your message and theme for the conferences has changed over the years, as well as your season of life that you've been in while you're doing the conferences. I'm curious if there's a particular season of Fresh Grounded Faith that you look back on with a lot of purpose or fondness.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's interesting. Well, when I first started Fresh Grounded, I didn't recognize I needed to theme them. And as it began to grow and -- I realized, you know, okay, this thing's going to be a thing.

And we were -- especially coming back to, like, Springfield, Missouri, every year, I realized I had to theme it. So I think it was probably three or four years into it that I finally started theming it. Because I was looking at my records the other day. I probably have 14 different themes I've done. So that makes sense. Which is a lot of themes.

My favorite, though, is probably Grace. I don't know when I started that. Maybe around 2021. But the Grace, Grace, Grace theme has been my very favorite because I've seen how it's transferable to where everybody is because it's helping us have grace for each other, receiving grace from God, living in the grace of God, and I think we just -- that's something we need desperately. So, yeah, that's been one of my favorite themes.

Clayton Rothschild: You haven't turned that into a book, though?

Jennifer Rothschild: No. I should, shouldn't I? I should.

And I also thought this weekend, the Devoted theme for this last one, I thought -- as I kind of began to teach it through, I thought this could be a really good book too. Yeah.

Clayton Rothschild: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So we'll see.

Okay. But that's interesting you asked that question, because Grace is not a book, Devoted is not a book. But some of the themes I've done have been based on books. So it kind of goes both ways.

Clayton Rothschild: And what was your ministry like pre FGF? Because I know that you started out as a singer-songwriter --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Clayton Rothschild: -- going to churches. And I imagine you began to speak more as a larger segment of your presentations. But then it turned into FGF.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Clayton Rothschild: So what was it like before FGF?

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, before Fresh Grounded, you're right, I just went and sang places. And women's conferences were just starting to become a thing, but there weren't a lot of female worship leaders. And so I began to just lead worship from a keyboard at some of these women's events.

And I was at one in South Florida, and there was this little-known Bible teacher from Houston, Texas, who had not published a book or a Bible study yet, named Beth Moore. She was the speaker; I was the worship leader.

And from that event, Dad got a phone call -- we got a phone call, but Dad, you know, received the phone call asking if I would come speak at another women's event in South Florida. Because this lady had invited Beth Moore, and Beth wasn't available, so she wanted to know if I could come, and did I speak? And Dad says to the lady, "Oh, yes, she does," which I never had.

Connor Rothschild: And you had to?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Connor Rothschild: Yeah, you were locked in.

Jennifer Rothschild: And the lady said, "Well, what would her theme be?" And Dad knew that the song I sang the most was "It is Well with My Soul," and he said, "Her theme will be 'It is Well with My Soul.'" And I remember when he told me, I was panicking. But I went and did this event. I mean, I asked the Lord to give me content. And, you know, I couldn't type, I couldn't write. I couldn't see what I was doing, it was all just happening in my head.

Anyway, I remember when I gave that first presentation. It was like suddenly I became a spectator and I began to watch myself do something I didn't know I was capable of, and realized that God had gifted me with communication. So music, songwriting, was communication. A different form of it was speaking.

So if you fast forward, then word got out and I was invited to speak at different things. And so we would travel the country, speak at these different events. And Dad began to notice two things. One, my invitations were growing. And I did not have the capacity to fulfill them all. I did not like to say no. A lot of them were little churches. So we had to make hard decisions. I hate this, but it's the truth. When you only have so much time and you have children at home, we couldn't say yes to everything, so we had to say yes to larger things. And I didn't like leaving the little churches out.

And so Dad also began to see how every church did things differently, and perhaps there was a way to do it uniformly so it was more efficient for the body of Christ and for us, thus Fresh Ground Faith was born. So it was really Dad's brainchild.

Clayton Rothschild: Interesting.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Clayton Rothschild: That's a really interesting model, because what it does is it takes local small congregations, empowers them, unites them under a common conference, and allows them to, you know, partake in what would otherwise be maybe not possible for them to --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. It empowers the locals, which I love, because I love the church. And we don't want to say no to the little churches, and this gave us a chance to say yes to every church. And obviously God blessed it and grew it.

Clayton Rothschild: Yeah. Because the model is you have a host church and then you have -- what do you call -- are they all host churches?

Jennifer Rothschild: They're co-host.

Clayton Rothschild: Co-host churches.

Jennifer Rothschild: We have one host church, which is the large venue, and then we have as many as -- you know, sometimes up to 25, 26 co-host churches. And they all bring their women and get out the word, and then it's this uniting event for a community.

Clayton Rothschild: Yeah.

Connor Rothschild: That's cool.

Clayton Rothschild: That's really cool.

Connor Rothschild: It's cool to hear, like, the origin story of it all.

I'm curious, like -- so yesterday, for example, we sat through the final one. There was another guest speaker, there was music, and there was kind of a presentation from Sean with Compassion.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Connor Rothschild: I'm curious -- and you've already talked a little bit how, like, your message in particular has changed over those 18 years, like, now you have a theme and you kind of, like, organize and do themes. What else palpably was different about last night versus some of the early years of FGF? Was there something that was there that you decided halfway through to nix totally --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Connor Rothschild: -- was there something that you've added in the last ten years that you think has really done well? How different would 18 years ago been to today?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh. Well, it's interesting that you ask that. Because Sean Groves, who's been with me at many events doing the Compassion presentation -- and we're friends, we're good ministry friends -- he said, "Wow, are you just -- you just seem so much comfortable here. Is that because it's your home church?" He said, "Because usually things are harder for me at my home church."

I said, "No." Usually I am more stiff. It's harder at my home church. I said, "I think I'm just more comfortable because" -- I'm comfortable in how I know God has led me, but I'm also like, well, this is the last one, you know. I wanted to go out in a blaze of happy. So one of the things about this weekend was I just decided no matter what, I was going to enjoy every minute.

Connor Rothschild: That's cool.

Jennifer Rothschild: So that was one thing, which is a blessing. And why not apply that to everything? I don't know. I wish I had learned that sooner.

But one thing I've done consistently every event for 164 of them is we all lift our cup and we ask God to fill it up. And then at the end I ask -- you know, we say, "Thank you for filling our cups." Okay, so that's one thing that's been consistent.

Yesterday one thing I did not -- I had planned to do that I did not have time to do because of the dynamic with the conversation with Kirk and then with Spill The Beans -- and I could tell that the dynamic with Kirk was going so well with that conversation -- I'm checking my watch the whole time. I know the two other things I need to do. I realized this is going to be more enriching than me interrupting and moving to the next thing for the sake of time. So, of course, that's where you use discretion and you trust the Holy Spirit.

But I was going to do this fun little Friends medley on the keyboard that I was going to lead the group in. It was just going to be kind of fun and sentimental. Well, I realized that wasn't as worthy as getting more of the conversation with Kirk.

Connor Rothschild: Yeah. And so you would have done something like that had the conversation been a little bit more stale or if, like, it just weren't flowing so well?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, or if it just needed the -- yeah. But I realized it would have been too much of an emotional interruption.

Connor Rothschild: So just inviting Sean up, that was kind of a game-time decision, like, in the moment?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, it was, that was game time.

And then when I went from the stool -- I mean, from Sean and Kirk to the stool, I introduced my team and the video, that's not what I had planned to do there.

Connor Rothschild: Gotcha.

Jennifer Rothschild: But the audience needed it at that point, and so...

Connor Rothschild: How many times do you think you'd do that in a given weekend? Like, kind of an --

Jennifer Rothschild: A shift?

Connor Rothschild: Like, in football it'd be like call an audible, you just, like, know -- based on the circumstance, you're like, we're going to change course.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, a lot.

Connor Rothschild: A lot?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Because there's audiences -- I describe them as sitting on the edge of their seat or leaning back with their arms crossed. And so a couple of weeks ago we had an audience that were sitting back with their arms crossed. In other words, like, Prove it to me.

Connor Rothschild: Just not as bought in?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. I am not here until you invite me. Well, I caught it real quick and so I started using some of the things that I would normally use. It's almost a little -- not -- I don't know how to describe it. It's almost flirtatious with the audience. They weren't responding. Nothing was happening. And so I had to totally shift. I dropped one story, added a different one to try to feel out if that was their thing. That wasn't their thing. I never really figured out their thing until I finally, after -- near the end of the evening. And my two guests that were with me said the same thing. It was a hard audience. They were just a hard audience. They were tired. It was a very stiff building with stiff views.

Connor Rothschild: Yeah, I wonder if physical environment matters.

Jennifer Rothschild: The environment mattered. And so I realized that -- near the end of the weekend, they were like, "This is the best conference ever," and I thought, Really? Because my expectation and theirs were different. So no matter how much I pivoted, they were going to have a good time based on their expectation, not what I provided.

Clayton Rothschild: How do you sense the audience? Is it a vibe or is it --

Connor Rothschild: Laughter?

Clayton Rothschild: -- laughter? Or what is it?

Jennifer Rothschild: It's both. It's both. So there are certain things that I know are going to work. No matter what, they always work. I always get the same audience reaction, whether it's an "aw" or a laugh or a gasp or a -- and when I don't get those right away, then I start to really try to read. And I can feel the room. I can feel it. Like I said, I can almost tell, are you -- like, there's some audiences, I can feel them sitting on the edge of our seats and they're saying, Make me laugh. Help me. I'm ready. And then there's some that I feel the lean back, prove it to me. And I don't how I can tell, except I can just sense it. Some of it is through how they sing, some of it's through if they laugh at the places that everyone else does or if they don't.

Connor Rothschild: So you can probably tell within the first two minutes of you talking --

Jennifer Rothschild: Absolutely.

Connor Rothschild: -- if they're going to be a softball audience or not?

Jennifer Rothschild: Absolutely.

Connor Rothschild: Interesting.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, absolutely. You know, some of it's just intuitive from doing it a while. One of the things Patsy Clairmont taught me early on, without her knowing she taught me -- she's a master speaker and storyteller. The way she used her pauses and laughing at herself basically told the audience, Your turn. You're supposed to respond here. I'm laughing at me, you're laughing with me. I have employed a lot of that technique. I will spend longer in pauses with facial expressions.

Connor Rothschild: I noticed yesterday you did this kind of -- you make a joke and you immediately smile at the audience, almost like inviting you in.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Connor Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's your turn.

Connor Rothschild: I don't know if I've noticed -- I don't know if I've just been more conscious of that or if that's a new thing that you've done. But I did notice you're kind of like -- and I think stand-up comedians do it too. I think I saw Anita Renfroe do stuff like that. It's like if in the .5 seconds after I make this joke you don't know for sure if you're supposed to laugh, I'm letting you know, like, yeah, you can laugh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Exactly.

Connor Rothschild: And I think it works. I think it definitely works.

Jennifer Rothschild: Exactly. So, like, sometimes when I do this music stuff with them, I'll kind of be holding out a note, and I'll just hold it out until it goes for -- when I'm doing this Southern Gospel thing, I'll hold the note out until it goes, like, ridiculously out of tune. The laughter will start, the laughter will start, the laughter will roar. You know what I mean?

So what I've noticed is -- whereas back when I first started, I was probably so mindful, get it in, get in the content, do it, now I let it kind of ebb and flow, give a lot more pauses, give the audience a lot more time to realize this is their deal too. Like, we're in this together and you need to respond here and -- you know, and it works. And I think it esteems the audience too. I think it says we're together and I'm esteeming you by asking you to be involved.

Clayton Rothschild: Hmm. Interesting.

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Okay, now let's listen in to the rest of the conversation.

Connor Rothschild: So obviously conferences are a big part of what you do, and it's the reason I'm here and, you know, I wanted to talk a lot about Fresh Grounded Faith. I also want to talk a little bit about the other facets of your career, because you're obviously multi-talented, you know. You do conferences, you speak, you also write. And just yesterday we learned about some of the highlights of your recent Bible study and some of the records that you're breaking. That's really cool.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Connor Rothschild: I had a good number of questions about writing, because writing is kind of like a parallel line with speaking in some ways.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Connor Rothschild: I think it's very similar, because how you write inspires how you speak. But it's also very different because, you know, how you pack information in is different, how you tell jokes, for example, is different, if you tell jokes at all. Your books are also unique because they're often, like, Bible studies, and they're read in a group setting, and so you probably have a different lens by which you view how things need to stick --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Connor Rothschild: -- or, like, about how things are talked about within groups. So I'm just very interested in that as a topic.

I want to start with something kind of separate from, like, your writing you do every day, and it's a question that I was just curious about. Is there any book that you wish you could write, that you can't for some reason? And that could be because it's controversial or it's obscure or wouldn't be commercially successful. Like blank slate, no audience exists, you just wish you could kind of write.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Connor Rothschild: Is there a book you wish you could write?

Jennifer Rothschild: A hundred percent. A woman's year with C.S. Lewis. I would like to write a book on C.S. Lewis and the unique relationship, as one woman, that I have had with him intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually. And what I would like to do with that is then translate that to an invitation to another woman and let her have a year with C.S. Lewis. And what I would do is highlight his best works, his most essential thoughts. I would want to connect a quote with a real-life story, with the Scripture, and then take them on an intellectual journey that would bring spiritual gratification.

Clayton Rothschild: Well, I think you can have very sophisticated, intellectually-rich content tied with emotionalism without it being academic.

Jennifer Rothschild: Same.

Clayton Rothschild: Because I think academicism --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Clayton Rothschild: -- you know, oftentimes has, you know, specific words that may be specific to the domain of knowledge. I read a trade book recently that I realized halfway through, oh, this is really for an academic theological audience, and it didn't sit with me. But it wasn't that the concepts were too sophisticated, it was just that it was academic.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wasn't written as warmly?

Clayton Rothschild: Exactly, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, that's what I do with Bible studies, because that is academic.

Clayton Rothschild: Yeah, sure.

Jennifer Rothschild: But what I do is I have a model I use in my mind that -- I have two models. When I am writing a Bible study, I have two people sitting across the table from me. And because mostly my audience is women, they're two women.

There was a friend of mine, who was an atheist, who loved me and respected me. And her name was Carrie. And I used to have Carrie sitting at my table. And then I would have, like, my friend Lori Cooley, who knows the Word and has walked with the Lord forever. I would have both of them -- I still have both of them sitting at my table in my mind when I write a Bible study.

Because I want to be able to communicate so clearly to the atheist who's listening to me, and in such the way that the Bible teacher is not bored, and both of them feel loved and accepted in what I'm writing. So, therefore, I try to make it that very warm conversational style with both audiences in mind.

I used to think you could only write to one audience, but I don't believe that anymore. Because I think when you're authentic in your messaging and in your story and in the way you're processing your messaging with them, then both the atheist and the Bible teacher are like, "I'm with you." I got that. Because I live a real life too, and here's what mine feels like.

So that's how I write a Bible study, very -- I mean, I'm still doing all of the study, and I'm inviting them to study with me, but I'm doing it in a much more relational way.

Clayton Rothschild: You know, what's notable is that you are a speaker and teacher, and you do these big conferences, and then you're also a writer. And I think to someone like me that hasn't really considered it, you think, oh, yeah, those are the same thing. But really those --

Jennifer Rothschild: Very different.

Clayton Rothschild: -- maybe are not two sides of the same coin. I bet maybe there's some people that are really great speakers, that maybe aren't so good at writing -- maybe -- but you do both. And so the process and even just the frame of mind that you have to be in to be successful in the conference space versus the writing space is very different, I would imagine.

Jennifer Rothschild: They're two different frames of mind.

Clayton Rothschild: And what do you find most fulfilling --

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, just because of the way I'm wired --

Clayton Rothschild: -- or natural?

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Yes to all of that. Here's why. Okay.

So I find very fulfilling the writing, only because I have to really study. I love research and I love learning. And one of my favorite things that is most fulfilling to me is to take a giant concept into little bite-sized pieces so someone else can process it, and then they feel esteemed because they learned something. Okay, so that's highly fulfilling to me.

And I do like to take the bigger, complicated things -- almost like I'm just getting a machete and walking them through a jungle and making a path for them. I love that. Okay, so that's fulfilling to me.

But I love the challenge of speaking because of the craft. Both of them are different crafts. But the craft of speaking, I have learned it's almost a performance art. And the creativity that God wired me with is fulfilled by the performance art of speaking.

When I first started speaking, I thought it was just communicating a message. Now I've recognized it is the performance art of communicating a truth.

So when I'm doing Bible teaching, I'm still mindful that I am drawing word pictures for people, I'm creating images with my body gestures that they're going to see a space come alive on a stage. That if I'm going to draw something on a banner on the floor that I'm describing, I'm going to physically get on the floor and show -- I'm going to physically be as performance art as I personally can, without being able to walk across the stage well.

So those are two different ways of crafting. And so it's hard to say which is more natural and which is more fulfilling, because anything challenging is fulfilling to me.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Yep, I do like anything that is challenging, that's for sure. And my sons' questions, oh, my goodness, they were exactly that, challenging. But there's more. So next week you are invited to listen in to part 2. We're going to talk about C.S. Lewis, how I grew up and really never read any books hardly at all. And we're also going to talk about the book that I will eventually write and what it'll be about, and it might surprise you, so...

Today we did talk about a lot of things, and I mentioned a lot of people. So I want you to check out the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/391, because I'm going to have links to anything or anyone you may be curious about. All right?

Until next week, why don't you get with your people and you ask good questions and have great conversations. You can. And you know why? Because you cand do all things through Christ. All right, see you next week.