4:13 Podcast: Can I Renew My Mind? With Kyle Idleman [Episode 371]

Kyle Idleman: There is an invitation here that we're recognizing I can't transform my life; I can be transformed. Like, there's a passive receiving that happens, but it requires a very intentional thinking on our part.

So there's this agreement that we have where as we give our minds to the truth of Scripture, as we take our thoughts captive, that the Holy Spirit then accomplishes this work of transforming our minds.

Jennifer Rothschild: Do you control your thoughts or do your thoughts control you? Well, today you are going to get the biblical, neurological, and emotional keys you need to control your thoughts.

Today's guest, pastor and author Kyle Idleman, is going to help you transform destructive thinking into a renewed mind one thought at a time. You're about to get some practical encouragement that you can apply as soon as the podcast ends. So what are we waiting for? KC, start the intro.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, hello, our dear ones. We're glad you're back. That was KC Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. I'm Jennifer. And it's two friends and one topic and zero stress. And you know our goal is just to help all of us be and do more than we even feel capable of because we are tapping into the power of Christ in us, the "I Can" life. It is Christ in us that allows us to be who he has called us to be and who empowers us to do what he has called us to do. Whatever that is, that's what we're about.

So we're glad you're here. And I do just want to tell you guys, we are super thankful for you. You have been saying such nice things to us and about the podcast in your reviews. In fact, KC's going to read a couple. But, KC, before you do, I just have to say something. You know, this conversation today, we're talking about basically speaking truth to our soul -- right? --

KC Wright: Right, right.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- so we can renew our thoughts. And if you've hung out with me for a while, you know that I've written on this several times, "Me, Myself & Lies: A Thought Closet Makeover" or "Me, Myself & Lies," the book, "What to Say When You Talk to Yourself." And I have a young women's version and an adult version and Bible studies and videos and the whole thing. This is a topic very near and dear to my heart.

And what's interesting is -- I was thinking about just the reviews that we've been receiving and how kind they are and, KC, how they are sometimes in direct contrast to what I say to myself, you know? Because, like, I will do the smallest little blunder, failure, whatever, I'm like, "Jennifer, you're such an idiot." And, you know, that is untruth. That's a lie.

KC Wright: That's a lie.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, that's a lie. But it can become a mental habit. And in a minute, Kyle's going to talk to us even about the neurology involved --

KC Wright: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- with why we have these kind of habits. So I just want to tell you guys, thank you for the words that you use in your reviews, because they're powerful and they influence other people. So in a minute we're going to talk about words that influence our own souls by talking to ourselves.

But, KC, I thought it'd be fun -- let's celebrate some of these reviews we've gotten and just call out some of these awesome 4:13ers.

KC Wright: Well, ChelsPink --

Jennifer Rothschild: ChelsPink.

KC Wright: -- feel the podcast hug. We're coming after you right now with a big hug, ChelsPink. She said just three days ago, "Seriously, prepare to be inspired. The 4:13 Podcast is phenomenal. I was absolutely captivated by Jennifer at a Women of Joy Conference. Her words resonated so deeply that I instantly searched for more. That's how I landed on this podcast, and I haven't looked back. Each week, Jenn and her fantastic guests deliver such powerful, refreshing wisdom that it feels like a personal conversation. It's more than just listening, it's an experience that truly breathes life into your week."

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that, Chels. Chelsea. I bet her name's Chelsea.

KC Wright: That was just like a bouquet of flowers delivered to the podcast booth.

Jennifer Rothschild: It was. Thank you for that.

KC Wright: Oh, my goodness. Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: Beautiful words.

KC Wright: And then here's one from Renee Tuck. Thank you, Renee. She said, "Thank you all so much for your encouraging podcasts. Love you and KC. Love your beautiful voices and laughter."

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, there's a lot of laughter. You're right about that, Renee.

KC Wright: We can't contain it. Life's too short.

Jennifer Rothschild: Y'all, those are just a couple of the very kind reviews. Some of you have sent them via email. So if you've not left a review, please -- whatever podcast platform you listen on, Apple, Spotify, please leave a review. It really is helpful to keep us active in the podcast algorithms. And honestly, it helps others take a chance and join our 4:13 family. So thanks for doing that. We just appreciate you so much.

Is that the last one, KC, or you got any more?

KC Wright: Well, I have more. I'm just -- I don't know. It just means so much to us when you take the time. But Luneelun. Luneelun.

Jennifer Rothschild: These abbreviations are hard, y'all.

KC Wright: Yeah, yeah. "I look forward to tuning in to Jennifer's 4:13 Podcast every time I can. It's uplifting, inspiring, and gets me going in the right direction for the day. Plus I have learned so, so much." Grannysu said it's her favorite podcast. "Always spiritually uplifting. Love the topics and conversations. Often find myself digging deeper into the topic even after listening."

Jennifer Rothschild: You go, Granny Sue.

KC Wright: And it just goes on. We've actually had a burst of recent podcast reviews, and we're so thankful.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's because y'all are so awesome.

KC Wright: We have 1,108. Who's counting?

Jennifer Rothschild: Not us.

KC Wright: We are.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

All right. So you can tell your words matter. They deeply encourage us, and they do mean a lot to everyone. So thank you so much for taking the time to do that.

All right. Now, I'm just going to tell you, buckle up. You are about to love this conversation. It's so intensely practical. It's one of my favorite topics spoken by one of my favorite people. I'm going to just tell you, Kyle Idleman is the real deal, and you're about ready to love it, so let's introduce Kyle.

KC Wright: Kyle Idleman is the Senior Pastor at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, one of the largest churches in America. On a normal weekend, he speaks to more than 30,000 people spread across 15 campuses.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's amazing.

KC Wright: God's hand is on this man.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: More than anything else, though, Kyle enjoys unearthing the teachings of Jesus and making them relevant in people's lives. Kyle and his wife, DesiRae, have been married for over 30 years. They have four beautiful children, two son-in-laws, and three grandbabies. They live on a farm in Kentucky, where Kyle doesn't do any actual farming. They just live on the farm. Way to go, Kyle. We understand -- with your calling, who has time to tend sheep?

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

KC Wright: Real ones.

Jennifer Rothschild: Real ones.

KC Wright: You're tending the -- yeah. Anyway, love that, Kyle. We love you. And right now, there's room at the table for you. Here's Jennifer and Kyle.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Kyle, this recent book of yours is on one of my favorite topics. It is called "Every Thought Captive." And so before we really dive into that Scripture that it's based on, I want to go to brain science. Because you cite some brain science in your book and you talk about how these recent studies on neuroplasticity -- which, by the way, you can tell us what that is -- how those studies line up with Scripture.

Kyle Idleman: Well, I'm not an expert on brain science. But one of the reasons I was excited about this book is taking some Scriptures that I have studied for years and years, and that I have helped teach and, of course, applied to my own life, and just recognizing how neuroscience affirms more and more what the Bible teaches about transformation and how that connects to the way we think.

So the neuroplasticity that you referenced, it's our brain's lifelong capacity to be transformed, to reorganize itself by forming new neural connections, right? And so for a long time it was thought that our thinking was fixed, our minds were set, that the way, you know, we grew up in childhood set the path for how we would think the rest of our lives. And what we know now is that our thoughts can physically, like literally -- not metaphorically change our brains, but literally change our brains.

And so when the Bible talks to us about being transformed by the renewing of our mind, it's an acknowledgement that God, who created our minds, knows how they work, knows how we process and how we change. And so it agrees -- it brings Scripture and science into alignment, which shouldn't surprise us since God is the author of both.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right. Because since he's the one who made our bodies, he knows how to guide us to manage them. And how beautiful that it's going to be life-giving. Okay, I love that affirmation. And I happened, Kyle, to be a psychology major in college, so all this stuff really lights my fire.

So you're getting to my favorite verses. Okay? Because I love 2 Corinthians 10:5 that talks about taking all of these thoughts captive and make these thoughts obey Christ. Okay? That's not a direct quote, 4:13ers, but that's the idea. Okay. So tell us what that looks like in our real lives and how we do that. Like, what does that look like in real life?

Kyle Idleman: Well, I love the imagery that Paul uses there in 2 Corinthians 10, because it has a wrestling emphasis. It's taking something captive or you're grabbing hold of it. Like, it's this violent, intentional seizing, it's not this passive letting it happen to you.

And so taking every thought captive, if you picture -- if you can picture wrestling a thought to the ground and then forcing it into submission, is the way I like to think of it. And if you -- to carry that metaphor of taking something captive, if you use the idea of interrogation for your thoughts, like, how do I take my thoughts captive? Well, I identify it, I hold on to it, and then I start to interrogate it.

And I start to say, okay, where did this thought come from? When did I first start thinking this thought? Because so oftentimes -- and this is what is referenced here with stronghold -- there's something that we've been thinking before we remember thinking about it. Or we've never thought about the fact that we think about it, we've just always thought about it.

And so recognizing the origin of it, seeing where it came from. Who was it that taught us to think this way about things? And then submitting that to Christ, asking ourselves and asking the thought, does this line up with what Scripture teaches? Does this line up with what Jesus has called me to?

So the term for this in science is cognitive reappraisal. It's the practice of identifying these unhelpful or these untrue thoughts and then intentionally redirecting them. But that requires us to do something that we don't do super well these days, and that is to think about our thoughts. You know, it used to be maybe you'd lay awake in bed at night, stare at the ceiling, nothing else to do, so you'd think about your thoughts.

You know, now, you know, there's always something to listen to, there's always a screen to give our attention to, you know, there's always -- there's always something that can capture our thinking. And so discovering the discipline of meditation, of thinking about what we're thinking about, and then letting Scripture be our filter for those thoughts is the process of taking our thoughts captive.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's really good. I love that you give that -- almost that wrestling metaphor. Because what it says to us is, hey, some of your opponents are hard. Like, you have to really not let go and stay with it. Because I think sometimes we think this should be a one-and-done, and it's not. It's like a wrestling match. But we are victorious, and so we just have to be able to learn how to apply that victory. But we have to be consistent.

And you know what else? One thing I thought of, Kyle, as you were explaining how we used to lay in bed and stare at the ceiling, that is so true. And now we quickly distract ourself. I heard somebody one time talking about the difference between amusing, being amused, or going to have an amusement park, whatever, versus muse. And to muse means to think.

Kyle Idleman: Ah, that's good.

Jennifer Rothschild: To amuse means to not think. So when you think about it, that's what we do. Instead of musing --

Kyle Idleman: I love that.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- we get amused. And so we watch Netflix or we listen to a podcast or whatever. So, yeah, what a hard challenge. And it's because wrestling is hard.

Okay. So one of the things before -- I want to talk a little more about stronghold, I want to talk about how we interrogate well. But before we do, I'm curious, as you've studied this, as you've lived this, do you think that we really can control our thoughts?

Kyle Idleman: Well, I think that there is a supernatural power that comes into play here. Like, where cognitive psychology falls short is on its own, without the power of the Holy Spirit, that that supernatural promise that accompanies, you know, don't be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, like, there is an invitation here that we're recognizing I can't transform my life. I can be transformed. Like, there's a passive receiving that happens, but it requires a very intentional thinking on our part.

So there's this agreement that we have where as we give our minds to the truth of Scripture, as we take our thoughts captive, that the Holy Spirit then accomplishes this work of transforming our minds. So, you know, we -- like so much in the Christian life, you know, our tendency is to want to put it on ourselves, to make this book about, you know, self-improvement and self-actualization and look what I can do. And that's not the message of this book, and it's certainly not the message of the Bible.

It is our dependence on the Holy Spirit. But we have a part to play. You know, we have a responsibility to steward our thoughts. And so it's not -- it doesn't happen automatically as we become followers of Jesus, but as we follow him and we take our thoughts captive, then he brings about that transformation.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's good. It really is, it's that merging of our self-control with the Holy Spirit control, which is an act of grace, grace that we need.

Kyle Idleman: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So same passage in 2 Corinthians. You mentioned the word earlier, strongholds. Okay, so it talks about strongholds. And so I want to know your definition of a stronghold, and then tell us how our thoughts become these mental strongholds that keep us stuck. And then, even more importantly, how can we begin to disassemble these and break them down?

Kyle Idleman: I think probably the easiest way to define stronghold is it's a lie we believe and we live our lives by. Now, we wouldn't necessarily do that intentionally, but we at some point have come to believe something to be true that has created a neural pathway that we often, you know, send things -- let me give you an example of a stronghold for me.

For a long time, a stronghold in my life was this lie that I can't ask for help. And if I was struggling with something in my marriage or as a parent or personally, there was this stronghold that just had been reinforced that -- a neural pathway that I had allowed to really be established that just said I can't ask for help. I'm a person that people come to for help, I can't be the one who asks for help.

And so recognizing that stronghold and where it came from -- and like a lot of strongholds, there is what I would just call the early and often thinking, you know, where -- maybe you grew up in a home where you were the people who rescued, you're not the rescuers. You know, you were the people who felt sorry for those who needed help, you weren't the people who needed help. And so somewhere along the line, it felt like it's not okay to be someone who needs help. You didn't intentionally start thinking that thought, but that stronghold was set up and established before you can even remember, but you've held on to it.

Another way a stronghold is established is just through repeated thoughts. So when we expose our thinking about something to a certain influence and we keep exposing and keep exposing, keep exposing, then that creates a stronghold. So first let me use anxiety. The stronghold of anxiety, if you're constantly being exposed to things that are happening in our world that create anxiety and, you know, you're on the news alerts 24 hours a day and the first thing you do is wake up in the morning and you scroll through to see what's happened, like, that repeated thinking creates a stronghold.

And then another thing that creates a stronghold is emotional association. So thoughts that are connected to strong emotions can form these lasting patterns. And so let's say -- well, I have a friend who lost his father in elementary school, and one of the strongholds that he developed in his life was no one understands what I'm going through. And that was so connected to such an emotional loss that that stronghold of no one understands what I'm going through was something that just stuck with him for so much of his life, caused him for a long time just to keep people at a distance and not let them be too close because they just couldn't understand what he was going through. But the emotional association, you know, created that stronghold.

And so recognizing, okay, here's where it came from, here's maybe where I started thinking it, and then that cognitive reappraisal says, okay, how do I need to tear that stronghold down? And it's with Scripture, it's with God's Word. So, for example, if my stronghold is I can't ask for help, well, the Bible says, you know, that this is where the Gospel begins of recognizing we need help, I need God's help.

The Bible tells us that we are to help one another, encourage one another, to bear one another's burdens, to pray for one another. So I need to replace that thinking that I've just allowed to be a neural pathway for me with what Scripture teaches. But that's not just a one-and-done. Like, creating a new neural pathway means exercising this taking every thought captive repeatedly until you have a new pathway to send your thoughts down.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I love this because there's such hope here. And, man, Kyle, don't we do that? Don't we just rehearse the same things over and over?

Kyle Idleman: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And if we don't pause and think about what we're thinking about, we don't realize we're doing this to ourselves.

Kyle Idleman: We don't even know we're doing it. Yeah, that's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: We don't. We don't.

You said something, too, that reminded me. I talked to Sissy Goff a while back, and she said this: that those things that are hysterical -- not meaning funny, but, like, they -- in the emotional sense, they create hysteria, they're deeply emotional -- become historical. And I've always remembered that, hysterical becomes historical, in that -- you're right when you said some things that are emotionally charged, like your friend with the death of his father, yeah, it really does impact us, and we don't even realize that we're letting that guide our thinking.

Okay, so let's talk about, then -- we've got these new neural pathways that are being carved out by the Word of God as we're repeating truth to ourselves. And so as we are doing this and holding our thoughts captive, tearing down these strongholds, how does this affect in areas of, like -- go to the real places in life, like forgiveness? Like, how does holding your thoughts captive help you let go of offensives?

Kyle Idleman: Yeah. One of the patterns I talk about in the book is the pattern of offense. It's interesting to study some of the brain science on this, because our brains can become addicted to being offended. Which seems odd, but there's a chemical that gets released into our brain when we feel offended and it kind of amps us up. And no one would say, "I want to be offended" --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

Kyle Idleman: -- but there's something about that that becomes habit or it becomes addicting. And so how do we break that thought pattern? How do we be transformed?

One of the things I talk about in the book is allowing God to give you a new way of thinking about something. And when it comes to offense, it typically looks like stopping and thinking about the other person's perspective, what they have going on in their life.

For example, I got this really cruel, harsh email from someone in our church that I didn't know, and I was immediately offended and upset with it. And so I thought, I'm just going to call this guy and I'm just going to talk to him on the phone and tell him what I think about this. And so I pick up the church phone and I call him. And he doesn't know it's me, he just sees that it's from the church.

And so when he picks up, he says, "Hello?" And then he immediately says, "Are you calling about my son?" and thinking -- you know, just thinking it was the church. And so I quickly said, "Hey, no. I was actually calling about an email you sent to me. But what's going on with your son? Tell me about your son."

And he said, you know, "My son's been -- has overdosed. He's in this clinic down in Nashville. We have to get him out of there today to a longer-term treatment center. We don't have the money, we don't know where to send him." You could just hear the hurt in his voice, right?

And what happened as I talked to him is my thinking about what had been so offensive to me totally changed. You know, I recognized that, okay, this guy's been really dealing with some hurt and some heaviness in his life, and it wasn't hard at all, it wasn't hard at all for me to not be offended at that time. It's not because what he said changed, it's because my thinking about what he said changed by listening and by better understanding what was happening in his life.

And, you know, Jesus -- we read in the Gospels again and again how he had compassion on people, he had compassion on people. He was constantly allowing himself to think about what things were like, even when he says, you know, "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they're doing." You know, how do you -- how in the world is he able to take his thoughts captive and not be offended by the very people who are crucifying him? And I think it's because, you know, he knew. He understood the person who was hurting him, and he was able to have compassion for them, which changed -- which broke that pattern of being offended.

So asking God for wisdom, asking him to give you a different perspective, asking him to give you compassion. I think this is one of the reasons why the Gospels tell us to pray for our enemies. When you pray for people who hurt you, it changes your perspective. Like, one of the reasons I don't want to pray for people who hurt me is I want to stay mad, you know, I want -- and I know if I start praying for them, I'm going to not hold on to that anymore. And so as we are obedient -- as we make those thoughts obedient to Christ through prayer and through the compassion of Christ, then it breaks that pattern, gives us a new way of thinking.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh, that'll preach. That is so good and so hard.

Kyle Idleman: Yes. Yeah, so hard.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, but so liberating. That's so good, Kyle. Thank you, Lord.

Okay, so one of the things I want to circle back to a little bit -- I think you kind of touched on this. So in your book, you do suggest that we ask ourselves some questions so that we can begin to identify or assess the thoughts that shape our identity. So what are some of those questions? You may have already touched on some, but I want us to circle back and make sure we're really getting this.

Kyle Idleman: Yeah, I touched on one of them, of really trying to understand the origin of the thought. Like, where did it come from? Who do I remember thinking this way in my life? And just recognizing that we might not have ever chosen to think the way we think, but we just have -- you know, it just was put upon us at an early age.

The other thing is to recognize -- ask myself, what am I exposing my mind to that might be causing me to think this way? You know, I talk in the book about the law of exposure that basically says whatever we expose ourselves to the most shapes our thoughts, which then, of course, determines our lives.

And one of the ways that my son has tried to help me in the last year -- he tried to tell me get in a little better shape. And one of the ways he helped me get in better shape was by writing down, hey, here's everything I eat during the course of the day. And what I learned in that process, kind of keeping track of this diet, was that there are a lot of things I ate that I wouldn't have counted. Like, I didn't -- for example, if I have a handful of Sour Patch watermelons, you know, I wouldn't -- the next day I wouldn't even have remembered it.

It wouldn't have hit my radar, it didn't seem like a big deal, you know, it was something small. But what you find is that there's a lot of those things. And by keeping a diet journal of those things, you recognize, oh, all these things that I didn't think were having much of an impact on me have added up to be pretty impactful. And so to pay a little bit of attention to a thought journal where you recognize, you know, here's the things I'm exposing myself to, here's how they're affecting my thoughts.

So I'll give you a quick example of this. If I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is scroll through social media or read the news or -- you know, write that down. And then, you know, when I -- anytime I get a break, if I'm on my phone, what am I listening to in the car on my way to work, at night before bed, like, just write down the different things you're exposing your mind to. And what you'll find is that those things have -- it's the law of exposure. Whether you want them to or not, they have an impact on you. And so we just tend to minimize this, I think. We say, oh, that doesn't really affect me. That might affect some people, but that doesn't affect me. And that's just not true.

And so the challenge for us as believers is not to just stop thinking those things or being exposed to those things, but to replace those things with Scripture, to replace those things with God's truth. And so I take my thoughts captive by recognizing here's what I'm being exposed to and here's what I want to replace that with. In the morning I'm going to expose myself to Scripture instead of to whatever, social media. And then you'll find -- you might not think it makes a difference, but you'll find that it does. Like, after a few weeks of really being intentional, just like with the diet, you'll start to see a difference. You'll start to realize, oh, that was having a bigger impact on me than I realized.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. You really have described in so many of this part of our conversation just how insidious this is. And it really is a matter -- I guess that's why the Scripture says hold your thoughts. Don't follow them around, don't observe from a distance, but, like, you got to hold that thought until you figure it out and see where it came from and what you're exposing yourself to and how it's affecting you. Oh, man, Kyle, this is such a good reminder for all of us.

And also I want to know -- in your book you mentioned that we've got these mental patterns. In fact, you list -- and I don't expect you to list all of them if you don't know them easily. But you mentioned five mental patterns that trap us. So if you can, at least share them or a couple of them. Give us an example of what these mental patterns are that trap us.

Kyle Idleman: Yeah. You know, I mentioned the pattern of offense as one. I'll mention a couple others.

I would say the pattern of insecurity is a significant one, where we think certain things about ourselves that is very self-conscious. But we've been discipled to be that way. You know, we've been discipled to constantly think about how we look and how others receive us and how do I compare to other people around me. And that cultural pattern that gets reinforced pretty much all day every day, where I am focused on myself and then I'm comparing myself to other people, will inevitably create a pattern of insecurity and recognizing, like, okay, if that's something I'm dealing with, how am I going to break that pattern?

And one of the things I've found in this is to really pay attention to certain times where that will hit, right? Like, for me, I'm a pastor, so when I get up to preach, I can -- if I've not taken my thoughts captive, I can very much be in a pattern of self-consciousness, of insecure thinking, of, you know, what are people going to say, how am I going to be received? And so I need to, in that moment, recognize, okay, I don't want that pattern of thinking. I want a pattern of dependence, I want a pattern of humility, I want to have an audience of one.

And so by recognizing, okay, in that moment I am more prone to, I have a greater tendency to think these thoughts of insecurity, so I'm going to intentionally take those thoughts captive ahead of time. I'm not going to wait until right before I get up to speak. I'm going to be intentional to be thinking about what God says and my dependence on him and that his strength is made perfect in my weakness.

And then the other pattern I talk about in there is like a pattern of distraction, that we just live in this constant state of always being distracted. And I stumbled on to some research that I write about in the book of -- that one of the best ways to break a pattern of distraction in your thinking is how you start the day. Like, how you begin your day can set you up to be less reactive to what's happening, and all the distraction around you, and to be more intentional with how you process the world around you.

So in the morning, you know, if you can -- instead of, you know, reading the news or jumping on social media or whatever it is, if you can take some time in the morning to read Scripture, to pray, to just be quiet and think about your thinking throughout the day, it sets your mind up to break that pattern of destruction. You're going to be more intentional.

If I'm praying through my day at the beginning of the day, and I've prayed through my meetings and I've prayed through conversations I'm going to have and -- if I've done that, then I'm less distracted as -- the day isn't just happening to me. I've already gone ahead of the day and thought about how I want to respond, how I want to receive what's happening around me.

By the way -- this is so interesting. Like, in the morning our brains are especially receptive to thoughts, to what we're exposing ourselves to, and then you see in Scripture how that's also true. Like, there's an emphasis in the Bible about, you know, in the morning. And you see this in both the Old Testament and the New Testament of an invitation to meet with God in the mornings. And so one of the things I challenge people with on this is, hey, 15 minutes in the morning I think can have more impact on your life than an hour and a half in the evening. That if you will spend the first 15 minutes of your day with God and seizing those thoughts, it can set you up for the rest of the day and how you think.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that, too, because there's probably some listening who are moms of kids and -- yeah, getting up 15 minutes early just to even be able to process your own thoughts, it does set you up and gives you an opportunity to feel just a little more like you've got a chance with this thing. I think that's super practical. And I love how God had already told us the things that science is just now catching up with.

Kyle Idleman: Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: One of the things -- we've got two more questions, Kyle. This one I hadn't intended to ask. But I hear so much of what you're describing, and it makes so much sense, and so I think okay. Let's say I struggle with my thoughts. And I'm learning so much from you right now, brother, and I can manage what I'm exposed to, and I can manage kind of what I begin to repeat, and I can start to jot down my thoughts. I can do all these things. But then there's this thing in my life, and it's a person. And this person in my life, man, do they, for lack of a better word, trigger me. Man, do they say things that are unkind. Or, man, do they just know how to push all my wrong buttons and aaah, help me with that. What do I do in those situations to hold those thoughts captive?

Kyle Idleman: Yeah, this is such a good question. Because what happens is in our relationships, we establish neural pathways for people. Like, I have a neural pathway in my brain that I send my wife down, and that pattern has been established over 30 years. And I have that with lots of people -- right? -- like people at work and friends, and they each have their own neural pathway that I can send them down. And so before they've said anything, before they've done anything, I've already determined, you know, good or bad, how I'm going to think of that person.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Kyle Idleman: And so I think this is where grace comes in for us, right? That as followers of Jesus, that we ask God to give us grace for people that allows for what I would call a generous explanation.

So when I think about what someone said, instead of just sending them down the neural pathway of, well, I'm sure this is what they meant, and I'm sensitive and I'm defensive, you know, I want to give a generous explanation. Let me think, God, about the most gracious explanation I could give for what they just said to me. And intentionally recognizing that you and I, we both -- you know, we all have this tendency to, without thinking, predetermine how we're going to receive somebody.

So it makes it so hard for people in our life to feel like they can start over. It makes it so difficult for there to be a reset because, you know, we think, oh, they're always going to think this way about me, they're always going to respond this way about me, they're always to make these assumptions about me. And as believers, you know, we're called to something different. We're called to have the grace for others that we have received from Jesus. But that requires a lot of intentionality.

One of the things I talk about, too, in the book is the importance of sharing some of that with other people, right? Like, if you have a burden or a pattern thinking you're trying to break, whether that's a burden you're struggling with or whether that's a person you don't know how to deal with, if you can share that with someone else, another believer, and ask them for prayer and for perspective, the process of sharing that will change the way you think about it. Those thoughts, when you keep them to yourself, are even more powerful. But when you share them -- like, one of the ways to break a stronghold in your life is to share it with somebody else and let them in on the struggle that you're dealing with.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. If you keep it in your head, it's just an echo chamber. It gets louder and louder and louder --

Kyle Idleman: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- and you think that's the only...

You know, Kyle, I was kind of laughing a little bit when you were explaining this, because I had an experience several years ago in the hotel room with -- my husband and I and another couple were on a trip. And we were getting ready to go. My friend came in the hotel room with just me and my husband, and when she was in there -- we were getting ready to leave -- and my husband said something about my jacket. And I reacted like we were in combat, like I was ready -- I was going take him out.

And so my friend Lori, she was a little -- she knows us well, so she wasn't overly awkward. But we get out of the room and she says, "Why did you react that way? He didn't say anything, he just" -- I said, "No, he said it in my head, and he's been saying it for 20 years."

Kyle Idleman: Right, right. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And you just described what you're talking -- that describes that pathway. I never really thought, oh, yeah, I've got a pathway for him. So no matter what he says, it could be innocent or dumb, and I need to choose a generous explanation. Or as Bob Goff even says, the least creepy explanation.

Kyle Idleman: Yeah, that's good.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's a thing. It's a thing.

Kyle Idleman: It is.

Jennifer Rothschild: So let's all have grace for each other and grace for ourselves in the process. Oh, man. Good words, brother.

Okay, we're going to get to our last question. So glad you've got this book. I cannot wait -- I've just skimmed through it. I cannot wait to read it. All right, here's our last question. You emphasize in your book the value of daily habits. And we've already talked about that first 15 minutes -- okay? -- which is brilliant. So besides that one, give us one more simple habit that you practice every day that you can recommend us to help us get started.

Kyle Idleman: So I have this chapter in the book called "Say It Out Loud." And one of the things I learned in this is -- again, this is an example of science confirming what the Bible would teach us -- is that there's extra power when you speak certain things out loud. It activates parts of your brain. If you just think a thought in your head, you know, that has power. But if you speak that thought out loud, your brain hears your voice and it activates a different part of your brain. And so there is this power in speaking things out loud.

And so if you can take a Scripture that is directly related to a thought that you're trying to take captive and you can commit that to memory, and then when that thought enters your mind, if you can speak out loud that verse, your brain works in a way that it breaks that thought pattern by saying it out loud. Let's say it's anxiety. And if you have Philippians 4:6, you know, "Don't be anxious about anything, but in everything, through prayer and petition and with thanksgiving, present your requests to God." And you don't just think that, you say it -- you know, and I understand sometimes you can't be in a place to say it out loud. But if you can say it out loud, there's just lots of power in that practice.

So one of the things I like to do is I like to sit on my front porch -- and I made this shift as I studied for this book. I used to sit on my front porch and read Scripture. Now I sit on my front porch and I read Scripture out loud, because there is something significant about taking the Word of God and not just speaking it, but speaking it out loud.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, you heard this easy habit, our friends: say it out loud. There is power when you say it out loud. So speak that thought and make your brain listen. And then get one Scripture related to that thought that you want to change, and let the thought come and then say the verse out loud. When the thought comes, you say the verse out loud. It's going to break the thought pattern when you hear it.

KC Wright: You know, there is power in saying it out loud. So do like Kyle, sit out on your front porch, read the Word out loud. This was so good today, and I personally got so much from this conversation. I know you did too. So, of course, you can now read the transcript at the Show Notes to review.

Plus, you can go there to register to win one of Kyle's books. We're giving one away through Jennifer's Instagram. So you can go straight to Jennifer's Insta right now @jennrothschild, or you can get a link to get there at the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/371.

Man, such good stuff today.

Jennifer Rothschild: Such good stuff.

KC Wright: My friend, you can control your thoughts. You can renew your mind because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and KC: And you can.

KC Wright: I love this, because the bottom line is when those thoughts come -- you know, I heard one great preacher say, "You can't keep the bird from flying over your head, but you can keep that bird from building a nest in your hair." But when that thought comes, you answer it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: You just don't let it sit there and build a nest.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

KC Wright: You've got to answer that and replace that lie with the truth of God's holy precious written Word.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.