4:13 Podcast: What Whitney Capps and Point of Grace Have To Say About It [Episode 359]

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, this is Jennifer Rothschild. You know I love my audiobooks from Audible. That's how I'm able to read so many books in a year. If you've never tried it, you can get a 30-day free trial with no obligation. Plus, you'll get a free audiobook of your choice that you can keep. So go to 413podcast.com/Audible to get started. And now, the podcast.

I cannot wait for you to hear this today. Point of Grace and Whitney Capps join me for a Fresh Grounded Faith in Springfield, Missouri, and there was just something very extra special about it. I don't know, maybe it was because Whitney Capps was right in the middle of cancer treatment. Or maybe it was because Point of Grace modeled just such beautiful friendship and humility. It was just so inviting.

Or maybe it was because a woman in the audience wanted to know how old KC was because she wanted to set him up with her cousin, Brenda, who loved to dance. Do you remember that, KC?

KC Wright: Oh, I remember.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, anyway, we discussed if the Point of Grace women have ever had any girl drama. I mean, we need to know these things. Whitney gave such practical ways to manage disappointment. And I'm just telling you, this was fun and deep and funny and wise and just what you need today. So let's spill it.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, everybody, and Brenda, if you're out there listening.

KC Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm sorry, I'm doing it. I'm keeping it. Don't ask me to edit.

It's me and KC. We are in the podcast closet. This is Jennifer. And our goal is to not only set KC up with a wife -- I'm just kidding. You're going to kill me. Okay. But it's to help you be and do more than you feel capable of. It really is two friends -- and I'm just having fun with him -- one topic, and zero stress, though KC is probably a little stressed right now because I'm messing with him.

But anyway, you guys got to hear this. It was hilarious. A lady in the audience really did ask about that.

KC Wright: Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. So sorry, KC. But anyway...

All right. I'm bringing it back down. Let's get serious. This is the 4:13 Podcast. And KC came in this morning with exuberance, telling me he found this beautiful translation or paraphrase of 4:13.

KC Wright: Oh, yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: I want you to read it for me.

KC Wright: Can I?

Jennifer Rothschild: I didn't get to hear it yet. Please.

KC Wright: Yeah. It's Philippians 4:13 AMPC.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amplified something.

KC Wright: Classic.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, okay. Okay.

KC Wright: Yeah. Listen to this. "I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me [I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me; I am self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency]." Woo!

Jennifer Rothschild: That's an interesting ending, "self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency." Because if Christ is in you, then, yeah, you can trust that sufficiency, and it comes across like self-sufficiency. Like, you don't need anything but Christ in you.

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's really beautiful.

KC Wright: Isn't that beautiful?

Jennifer Rothschild: I think Brenda's going to love that. Maybe we'll read that at your wedding.

KC Wright: Listen --

Jennifer Rothschild: Sorry, sorry, sorry.

KC Wright: -- I have to tell you my bird's eye -- I have to tell you my view of this whole thing.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, yes.

KC Wright: I don't know if I ever told you that.

Jennifer Rothschild: No. What?

KC Wright: But, you know back in the day, I worked in Christian radio, and I played Point of Grace all the time. As a matter of fact -- this is really bad. Don't tell anybody.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

KC Wright: But I would delete some songs in the music rotation that the music director had put in there and I would replace it with Point of Grace.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's awesome.

KC Wright: And I told the girls that. Because there were some songs on my show that wouldn't wake me out of a daydream. So I would remove them and I'd put Point of Grace in there. Like "Shall We Gather At The River," right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh, yes.

KC Wright: So can you imagine? Here I am, I am a huge fan of Point of Grace. I'm up in the balcony at this church, Point of Grace is on stage, and they start saying from the stage, "Where's KC? Where's KC?" And never in a million years would I think in the future, Point of Grace will be sitting on stage in front of thousands of women trying to set you up. Set you up. Find you a wife in the audience.

But you know, this is 2025, which Jennifer renamed 2020-thrive.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

KC Wright: I've renamed it 2020-wife.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh! There you go.

KC Wright: Yeah. We need to get married by Christmas.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Well, I like winter weddings. I don't have to let my arms show. That's nice. KC, I just know there is -- the Lord has the right woman for you.

KC Wright: Well, the clock is ticking. I'm not getting any younger.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, I know.

KC Wright: And I want some children.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh.

KC Wright: More.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Brenda, if you're postmenopausal, you're out. Sorry.

Okay. Anyway, one of my favorite things about that event, KC, where Point of Grace and Whitney Capps were, is you having those Point of Grace women, like, all standing around you and hanging over you. It was the funnest thing. We just had a good time together.

KC Wright: I have that picture. I'll put it on -- can we put the picture on the Show Notes?

Jennifer Rothschild: We'll put it on the Show Notes.

KC Wright: I went in for a picture with Point of Grace, and they said, "Oh, it's time we give you a KC sandwich."

Jennifer Rothschild: They did. They got all around him. It was adorable.

KC Wright: Oh, they are so real and authentic.

Jennifer Rothschild: They are. They are.

KC Wright: They are the Wilson Phillips of Christian music.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's a good way to put it.

KC Wright: They are. But I think they're even better than Wilson Phillips.

Jennifer Rothschild: They are so much better. And they're still better. I mean, they are still -- they're just -- they never age.

KC Wright: Man, every year I go to Fresh Ground of Faith and it just -- that was the best one. No, that was the best one.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, I know.

KC Wright: I'm telling you, this one, it was the --

Jennifer Rothschild: It was special.

KC Wright: Oh, it was special.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and I will say this, because we've given Point of Grace all the love. I call them The Points. We've given The Points all the love. Y'all, Whitney Capps is unbelievable.

KC Wright: Unbelievable. Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: She really is. She's funny, she's deep, she's so smart. But y'all, she was in the middle of cancer treatments and she had such joy, such insight. I mean, KC, let's just introduce -- now, I don't think these women need introduction, but since they've not been on the podcast, let's introduce The Points and Whitney, and then we'll get it moving.

KC Wright: Whitney Capps is a national speaker for Proverbs 31 Ministries and the host of the Theology and Other Fun Stuff Podcast. She's a mom of four boys. She needs our prayers. She lives in Atlanta. She's the author of "Sick of Me" and "We Over Me," a video-based Bible study. She calls herself a cancer steward, a Bible geek, and she loves Coke Zero and Guac.

Point of Grace has been in our hearts for the last 30 years, with total sales of over eight million. The group has garnered two platinum records, three Grammy nominations, and numerous Dove awards. Point of Grace has released ten best-selling studio recordings, four Christmas albums, and tons of number one radio hits over the last 30 years.

Jennifer Rothschild: Thanks to KC.

KC Wright: Whitney cracked me up because she knew every one of them --

Jennifer Rothschild: She knew every lyric.

KC Wright: -- by heart. She was fan girling like never before.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

KC Wright: And if -- Point of Grace is going to stick with us another 30 years, and we'll call them Grannies of Grace.

Jennifer Rothschild: Grannies of Grace. Yeah. They can sing at your wedding.

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, here we go. Let's Spill the Beans.

KC Wright: That's right. Also, I cannot wait to hear this. So here is Whitney, Jennifer, and The Points, also known Leigh, Shelley, and Denise.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, let's get the Point of Grace up here --

Whitney Capps: Amen.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- and dry our tears. Come on, Points, let's go.

Whitney Capps: Amen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my goodness. We are going to Spill the Beans. And I've also just got to say, wow, your concert, your songs, your harmony. But you know I was also thinking? What a picture of faithfulness. Sometimes we think, wow, they've been so successful for 30 years. May I redefine that. Wow, they have been so faithful for 30 years. It looks like success on the outside, but what you really see is obedience and humility and faithfulness, and it comes across as success. And I admire that and appreciate that about y'all.

Whitney Capps: Amen.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I don't understand it, because I'm a few years older than you, and our voices change as we age. Not theirs.

Whitney Capps: No kidding. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: What in the world?

Whitney Capps: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: But I will say, if one of you goes down, Whitney is in.

Whitney Capps: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm telling you, she knows every lyric.

Whitney Capps: I do know every lyric.

Jennifer Rothschild: Not just a few.

Whitney Capps: That is true.

Jennifer Rothschild: Every.

Leigh Cappillino: She knew every lyric.

Jennifer Rothschild: Every lyric.

Whitney Capps: I do.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Whitney Capps: It's kind of obnoxious.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can't remember my children's names. She remembers every lyric.

All right. Now, you guys -- during the break, I went back and went through your Spill the Beans cards with our National Conference Director, Terrie Bitter. And you asked some really good questions. This is a smart, fun crowd --

Whitney Capps: Not surprised.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- as you've already figured out. So we pulled some of the questions -- we don't have time for all of them. So we pulled the ones that represent most of your questions. Shelley, are you going to be asking the questions for us?

Shelley Breen: I have them right here.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right.

Shelley Breen: They are smart and funny.

Jennifer Rothschild: They are. All right. So we're just going to spill the beans and see how far we get.

Shelley Breen: Okay. This is a really spiritual one --

Whitney Capps: Give it to them.

Shelley Breen: -- and it's to Jenn. "What color and brand of lipstick are you wearing?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Whitney Capps: Good question.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's girl talk. We got to know. It's Clinique.

Shelley Breen: Clinique?

Jennifer Rothschild: I think it's Shy. Can you see that? How old are your eyes?

Whitney Capps: I have my glasses.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Shelley Breen: Whitney has her glasses.

Whitney Capps: I have my glasses. I don't go anywhere without my glasses. It says Sky. 37 Sky.

Shelley Breen: 37 Sky.

Whitney Capps: So 37 Sky.

Shelley Breen: Clinique?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, it's Clinique. And it stays on. Okay, so now you know. Now you know.

All right. Next?

Shelley Breen: Okay. I'm really interested to see your answer in this. It says, "Jennifer, would it have been easier to have been born blind than to lose your sight as a teen?"

Jennifer Rothschild: See what I mean? They're so smart.

Shelley Breen: I know.

Jennifer Rothschild: What an interesting question. I don't know because I've only known one thing. But here's what I do know. Elizabeth Barrett -- Browning? -- yes -- once wrote, "Tis better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all." And so I consider that concept.

And I was born with sight, and I am so grateful for that. Is it better to have had it and lost it and, therefore, have to grieve and navigate the loss than to have never had it? I kind of think so. And the blessing is I have a beautiful library in my mind of colors and -- well, I can't remember people's faces anymore, but I did once see my people's faces. But I'm so thankful for that. For that reason, I also have a good sense of spatial awareness. I'm just thankful.

But the bottom line is I'm going to be thankful whatever the thing is, 'cause it's just easier.

Shelley Breen: Whatever the "it" is.

Jennifer Rothschild: Whatever the "it" is.

Shelley Breen: Okay, this one's for Whitney. It says, "My friend has cancer. How can I best support her while she is going through treatment?"

Whitney Capps: Ah, that's really kind. I will tell you, the thing I've struggled with, next to not being a great mom -- because I miss stuff. And that's hard. The way my friends have loved me that's meant the most to me -- and we have been cared for in myriad ways.

But they would call and invite the boys to come spend the night or to take them to see a movie and let them do fun things that I felt like, especially when I'm on treatment, that I can't do. I had chemo last week. I'll have it again next week. And on Friday night, Tate wanted to have a friend spend the night. And I was like, "Buddy, I just -- I can't, I can't do it tonight." That very night, a friend called and said, "Can Tate come spend the night with us?" And it was just the sweetest grace that people are stepping in to help provide my boys a normal, you know, childhood in a way that really matters.

The other thing I would say is just know in a season of suffering, probably whatever you're in, I'm a really bad friend. And I feel ashamed about that. But sometimes -- I know this sounds stupid -- even the mental work to respond to a text or to answer a phone call, sometimes I just don't have it, and that makes me feel bad. And so just being a friend that knows it is not personal. Sometimes it's just -- I just don't have the energy. And so just, you know, give us grace.

Shelley Breen: That's good.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's really good.

Shelley Breen: This person also said, "I admire you very much."

Jennifer Rothschild: I think we all wrote that question.

Shelley Breen: Okay, this is for Point of Grace. I just love that band.

Whitney Capps: They're great.

Shelley Breen: "What is your story for how you came together?" That's the first part, so one of you can answer that. And then, "Where did the name Point of Grace come from?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooo, I want to know that.

Denise Jones: All right. Well, I'll try to do it real quick. We were actually in college together. We began as a foursome, for those of you who've been following us since the Say So days. We were at Ouachita Baptist University, not too far, you know, south of here.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Denise Jones: We were in school together, we were in singing groups together at school, and one night in a dorm room, literally, we decided to make this group. It was actually going to be a trio originally. And then I went home and told Shelley about it, and she said, "Well, I want to do it," and she took over.

So we started traveling summers. Our school was super sweet and supportive of us. They provided us a little sound system. We would go to camps and tell about Ouachita and also lead small groups and all of those things, and lead worship and things. So that was great.

We got discovered at a place in Colorado and we won the group competition there. And a guy from Word Records was there and started coming out to see us and brought us to Nashville to do a couple songs to see if they liked us, and they did. So we started singing together. That's, yeah, that's kind of how it started.

And the -- oh, the name Point of Grace.

Shelley Breen: The name Point of Grace.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, were you Point of Grace at that time?

Denise Jones: We were Say So at that time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Say So. Okay.

Denise Jones: Let the redeemed of the Lord say so. And there was another group called Say So. They kindly had been longer, and they wrote us a nice little letter that said, "You really need to change your name."

Jennifer Rothschild: A/k/a cease and desist.

Denise Jones: Cease and desist.

So we had our photo shoot done, we had the record done, and we had to come up with a name. So we went to our manager's house one night and spent -- there was all kinds of names. Like people -- we'd have a contest. I can say this in a group of women. People would write funny names like Octohooters and --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.

Denise Jones: -- just stuff like that. Funny names.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.

Shelley Breen: I don't think we have ever said that from stage.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's awesome.

Denise Jones: I know. But it's females, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Whitney Capps: Hilarious.

Shelley Breen: Well, if she's going to say that one, another name that somebody sent in was Aroused.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Shelley Breen: That was the name they -- can you imagine? Please welcome Aroused. No.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Whitney Capps: Oh, mercy.

Jennifer Rothschild: They knoweth not what they say.

Shelley Breen: No, not what they say.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Shelley Breen: Yeah.

Denise Jones: But anyway, the guy that signed us had actually written -- and we've looked it up and we can't find it. But he had been reading a C.S. Lewis book. We don't know which one. He thought it was "Surprised by Joy," but we can't find it. But it was saying the sentence of what God was showing him was, "We live every day at the point of God's grace." And he had written that phrase down. And we were four young girls who had just come to town, and we were feeling just that need of his everyday grace. And we still, more than ever, feel like we need his day-to-day grace.

Whitney Capps: So good.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's so good. Point of Grace.

Okay, so I just got to know a practical thing. So y'all have known each other 30 years. What about girl drama? Do you have any? Do you always get along? Like, do you have your roles, everybody stays in their lane, or do we get a little mm-mm with each other every now and then?

Shelley Breen: I mean --

Leigh Cappillino: Well, the good thing --

Denise Jones: What'd you say, don't be intimate? I mean, don't tell everybody everything?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, right, right, right.

Denise Jones: I'm kidding.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right.

Leigh Cappillino: The great thing is -- the building blocks of all of our childhoods is we had sisters, and so --

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Leigh Cappillino: And they were sisters where you learned to share mirrors, you shared bedrooms. You know, it's unheard of nowadays. But we shared bedrooms and, you know, things like that, so I think that helped with just that yin and yang.

We have over time -- you know, you hopefully mature. Hopefully mature. But we can definitely pinpoint what Denise is great at, what I'm decent at, what Shelley's great at, and we've just been able to be confident in that --

Jennifer Rothschild: That's good.

Leigh Cappillino: -- because, you know, it's again giving God glory for our stories.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow, that's good.

Shelley Breen: Yeah, not too much drama, so it's good.

Jennifer Rothschild: That is good.

Shelley Breen: Okay, this is for Jenn. "Have you ever been mad at God? And is it okay in my prayer if I tell him that I'm mad or confused?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, it's always okay that you pray honestly to God. Whoever wrote this, you should read Psalm 13, because David basically pours out his heart to God and says, "Have you forgotten me forever? Why are you hiding your face?" That could be based on anger or fear. We don't know what he was feeling. But, yeah, we tell God how we feel.

Have I ever been mad at God? My personal answer is no. Now, let me explain why real quickly.

I'm a psychology major. Okay? I was a psych major in college. So, like, I know there's got to be latent issues underneath. So I'm like, "Everybody always asks me if I'm mad at God. I've got to be mad at God." Where is my anger? Where did I bury it? To whom did I repress it? You know what I'm saying? Like, I've really searched thinking I must be. And I can honestly say I'm not.

But it's not because I'm holy. Well, I'm made holy by God. But it's because I think early on, I just really loved Jesus. I really did. And I think just early on, before I became blind, I had such a love and respect for him that when I did become blind, it was almost counterintuitive to be mad at him, because I already loved him and I already trusted him.

And I will say over the years, I recognize how very much -- like, I love my children. And if I, as a fallen earthly parent, allowed my boys to experience their own hardship for whatever reason, it was a greater sacrifice for me than it was for them. Because everything in me wants to rescue and to fix, right?

So why could I be mad at God, who gave his life for me? I just can't be mad at him. And bottom line is, when I'm mad at somebody, you know what I do? I separate myself from them. And I can't do that. I need God too much. I mean, it would be the dumbest thing I would ever do.

So there's lots of reasons why, but that's not been my struggle. But if it is yours, you respectfully -- we respectfully tell God he is holy, he is other. He's not your BFF. He loves you better than a friend could. But if we express anger to him, we do it within the confines of respect for his kindness and authority.

Whitney Capps: Can I add a thought? Because I struggled with this for months. Because my fear was in wrestling with all the emotions that I felt, I don't want to end up like Job, where I hadn't revered the Lord.

And so I'll just give you this practical prompt that I came up with. I would say, "God, you've hurt my feelings," and I would write all the feelings that hurt. But I would close every journal entry with, "But I trust your heart."

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

Whitney Capps: So that I knew I was honest. And my feelings are not reality. His truth is reality. But I could at least say, "God, you've hurt my feelings," and I would tell him, and then I would say, "But I trust your heart."

Jennifer Rothschild: And, you know, that's Psalm 13. Because that's how David ends Psalm 13, "I will trust in your unfailing love." Yeah, that's good stuff.

Shelley Breen: This is for anybody that wants to answer it. "Which prophet do you relate to the most when it comes to these hard times that we are in?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.

Shelley Breen: I know. That's, like, a deep question.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I'll start, just because I've written on the minor prophets. You know, sometimes I think Jeremiah because I weep. But honestly -- I'm going to be super honest -- sometimes when I'm weeping about suffering, it's because how it affects me, not how it's affecting everyone else. And I think Jeremiah wept more for everyone else. So that would be too unworthy for me to say that.

So I think Amos. Because I think Amos, he was willing to go to a place that was hard for him and he was willing to speak the truth no matter what. And when things are hard, I find that doing hard things kind of helps displace a little bit of the self-centered hardness -- of the hardness I might feel, if that makes sense.

Shelley Breen: That's good.

Whitney Capps: I think John. Because he wrote Revelation, and so there's an apocalyptic kind of prophetic element to that. But what I love about that is that he was so forward focused. And I think in a hard season, for me, it is just what you taught on last night, that this is so temporary. Or was it today? I'm in a time warp.

Jennifer Rothschild: I don't remember either.

Whitney Capps: I don't remember what day it was. Anyway...

But as hard as this is, it is fleeting and temporary. And so I think kind of John's -- even, you know, as he was on the Isle of Patmos, kind of that forward view of he wins and we know the end kind of changes how we sort of kind of stumble through today maybe.

Shelley Breen: That's good.

Jennifer Rothschild: You got one, Shelley?

Shelley Breen: No. I'm just a question asker, so...

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Sorry. Yeah. That's right, we're staying in our lane.

Shelley Breen: Jennifer, this is a really quick one. Who sings "Safe In the Arms of Jesus"?

Jennifer Rothschild: "Safe In the Arms of Jesus" from the Psalm 23 Bible study, I had to give a shout out. That's Michael O'Brien, former lead singer of NewSong.

Whitney Capps: That's awesome.

Jennifer Rothschild: So Michael O'Brien. Yeah, you need to check him out if you don't know him. But, yes, he sings "Safe In the Arms of Jesus" on Psalm 23.

Shelley Breen: Okay, this is for you too. It says, "How old is KC? My sister was left a widow three" -- Why are you laughing? I don't know --

Jennifer Rothschild: Where is KC? Is he in here? He's my Seeing Eye Guy on my podcast.

Whitney Capps: Where is KC?

Shelley Breen: Oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, he was up there this --

Shelley Breen: Okay, let me read it. It says, "My sister was left a widow three years ago. And she lives in Wisconsin and we really want him back home. Could you introduce her to KC? She is 51 and absolutely sold out for Jesus. Her name is Brenda. She loves to dance."

Jennifer Rothschild: She loves to dance! Okay, give me that card. I'm giving that to KC.

Whitney Capps: That's so awesome.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, thank you. Moving on.

Shelley Breen: Okay, I love this, because we obviously have some new believers here. We've talked a lot about the Gospel. And somebody says to Whitney, "What is the Gospel?"

Whitney Capps: Gospel means "good news." It's the good news. And so there are lots of ways that we can cash that out. But the shortest version is that we were sinners and separated, with no way -- there's a bridge to cross a great divide.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right.

Whitney Capps: There's a cross to bridge the great divide. Listen to the song. Sums up the Gospel perfectly. Anyway...

Jennifer Rothschild: It does.

Whitney Capps: But we couldn't get to God, and so God came to us and Jesus lived a perfect sinless life. And then, as Jennifer said, he took the death that would have been ours. And so when we put our trust in him, he gives us the life that should have been his, and is in the resurrection, so that we can live and walk with him. But essentially the Gospel is good news.

Now, for the Christ-follower, if you're trying to figure out how to share the Gospel and you're wanting to talk about it, in my opinion, the easiest way to do it -- there are really two critical questions, and it is, who is Jesus and what did he do? And so if you're thinking about sharing the Gospel, that's a great way to have conversation with anybody. What do you know about Jesus? Who do you think he was and what do you think he did? And then it gives you an avenue to talk about the Gospel.

Jennifer Rothschild: Brilliant.

Shelley Breen: So good.

"Denise Jones, where did you get those fantastic pants you had on last night? I love the texture from a distance, and I really need to know."

Denise Jones: Thank you.

Whitney Capps: That's good, girl.

Denise Jones: Actually, y'all, we'll tell you this. Because people ask us a lot about our outfits and stuff. And, you know, we're not these big groups that get all these endorsements and people do all these clothes and throw clothes at them and they always have something new to wear. And the biggest problem has been Instagram. It's killed us. Because every time you have to show yourself on Instagram, we're in the same outfit. You know what I'm saying? Because we don't have enough money to go every show and have a new outfit.

Well, we discovered this thing called Nuuly. And I wish we had a rep here because people have asked us that twice.

Jennifer Rothschild: How do you spell that?

Point of Grace: N-u-u-l-y.

Whitney Capps: Y'all need to put your code on your Instagram bio. Go through their Nuuly code, because y'all get credit.

Denise Jones: We don't know how to do that.

Shelley Breen: Help us out, somebody.

Denise Jones: Anyway, it's just a prescrip- -- a subscription thing.

Whitney Capps: That's so great.

Shelley Breen: It's prescription clothes.

Jennifer Rothschild: For the clothing-impaired, it's a prescription. Helpful. Thank you.

Denise Jones: It's a monthly thing. And you get to pick, like, five outfits per month. And you just get to pick it, and then you get to send them back, and then you get to try something.

Whitney Capps: It's the best.

Shelley Breen: You get to pick six things. And if you really like something, I would suggest ordering it in two sizes, because you never know which one's going to fit.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh. Nuuly. That's helpful.

Shelley Breen: Yeah. It's like $100 a month, and it works pretty good, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Nice.

Shelley Breen: And then if you don't like something, you can just wear it one time, and you just wad it up and send it back.

Denise Jones: You don't have to wash it or anything.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Shelley Breen: Can each person give one tip for self-discipline. Starting with Whitney.

Whitney Capps: Oh, you have asked the wrong person, y'all. This body was sculpted by Double Stuff Oreo's and queso. You don't need to ask me.

Shelley Breen: Yes.

Whitney Capps: I don't know. Listen, if I knew, I'd look real different than I do, y'all. I mean, I -- I don't know.

Shelley Breen: Moving on to Denise.

Whitney Capps: I really don't. I really don't. I guess I'm not sanctified enough. I will just say -- here's all I know. Don't wait to feel like it. So just -- like, when I think about particularly Bible study -- y'all, I love God's Word, and I'm never sorry that I did it, but I don't wake up every day thinking, I can't wait to be in God's Word.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. Right.

Whitney Capps: Sometimes there's a to-do list a mile long, and I don't want to get to it, and so I -- just don't wait on a feel to, I guess this may be all I can say.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's good.

Whitney Capps: I don't know.

Denise Jones: Yeah, I think that's really good.

Yeah. You know, for me, I am not the organized one of us girls, of the three of us, and I kind of can go to chaos and all of those things. And if you saw my closet, it's just a mess all the time. So it's hard for me to be disciplined.

I will say this -- not over-spiritualizing it -- I truly started asking the Lord to help me. And we had a girl speak to us a couple years ago that just said, "You know what? God just does things in the morning." I don't know why, but he does. And I challenge you to start waking up when the sun rises, because there's not that to-do list of all the chaos, your brain hasn't started going completely crazy --

Jennifer Rothschild: That's good.

Denise Jones: -- there's a quietness in there, and just do it.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's good.

Denise Jones: And I just said, "Lord, help me do it." And he has started to awake me and I don't just hate crawling out of the bed. And it really has been a God thing, I can only say. But it started with me just saying, "Lord, I can't do this. I need you to help me."

Whitney Capps: So good, Denise.

Denise Jones: And the fact that the Lord has taught me to trust his voice, and so I want to hear it. I used to not always want to hear it because I was scared or didn't like what he was going to say to me. And now I can trust his voice, and so it makes me want to have a conversation.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's beautiful.

Whitney Capps: That's so good.

Leigh Cappillino: Well, when we were writing that book, for me, what makes me happy is -- what I call my little personal trinity -- is in the morning spend time with the Lord, work out for 30 minutes, and have a decent meal for my family on the table. And if I can do, I just feel a little bit better.

Whitney Capps: That's nice. That's good.

Shelley Breen: Mine would be just kind of writing out my day, what it's going to look like, the night before or the afternoon before the next day. That kind of helps me, like, stay on track and stuff. I do like the getting up early thing before your phone starts dinging. You can get a lot of stuff done.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's really good. Okay, I love this. It's super helpful.

Mine is a little bit like Whitney's. I would say I do what I dread. So whatever I dread, I do it. Because otherwise it looms over me and gets larger in my imagination and then I start to react to it with dread and I procrastinate. So it helps me to first do what I dread.

The other thing I have learned is to touch something once. Just touch it once. So that helps me with self-discipline. Because before I engage in something that I'm going to leave unfinished or undone, I think through can I accomplish it so I'm going to only touch it once? And that helps me.

Shelley Breen: Okay, that's great.

And these are the last questions. I'm going to kind of marry the two together because they kind of go together. And they're for Jenn. "What was your most memorable story from all of your conferences?" And then, "What do you plan to do when you stop traveling for conferences?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, boy. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what I plan to do, but then I want us all to give a little bit of a memorable story, so start thinking.

I am going to -- Fresh Grounded Faith will retire at the end of 2025. Jennifer Rothschild will not retire at the end of 2025.

Whitney Capps: Praise Jesus. Amen.

Jennifer Rothschild: I will -- so when I'm not doing Fresh Grounded Faith, I'm doing all sorts of other events all across the country that keep me very busy and grateful. I will continue to do those. We are also praying about another maybe smaller kind of event. So please stay tuned. Please know we are not ending; we are changing. We are not finishing; we are transitioning. So enjoy next year, but do not stop being my friend, 'cause I'm going to still be around and I will be lonely if you stop hanging out with me.

Whitney Capps: That's awesome.

Shelley Breen: Okay, we have about one minute left. Does anybody have a quick story?

Jennifer Rothschild: Who has a memorable event?

Leigh Cappillino: Just memorable for me is our Christmas tours. Especially when our kids were really, really little, they would come out on the bus with us. And I think what I loved so much about it was we got to invest in their lives while they saw what we did for a living, and that was a great -- those were great memories.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's great memories. And you know what for me? This is a great memory. Have you not loved being with The Points and Whitney? You guys are the best.

By the way, I would like to also say that I wear the same clothes at all my conferences also. And my social media people, KC, they used to beg me, "Could you please change clothes, because all your pictures look identical. No matter what city you're in, you look identical." So I'm definitely checking out this Nuuly that they mentioned.

And by the way, we will also have a link to Michael O'Brien's song that we talked about, "Safe In the Arms of Jesus," from the Psalm 23 Bible study. We'll have a link to that also on the Show Notes, plus the Point of Grace song "Great Divide" and all sorts of music. I think KC even mentioned earlier "Shall We Gather at the River." So we'll have all their songs where you can easily link to them on the Show Notes.

KC Wright: Yeah, these are Show Notes you do not want to miss. We will also have links to our girl Whitney Capps' podcast and all their books and music. So go there, 413podcast.com/359.

Jennifer Rothschild: And by the way, you did hear me answer about finishing up Fresh Grounded Faith. And I didn't want any confusion, so let me just make sure I've told all our people. Fresh Grounded Faith will be finishing in 2025, this year. So this fall, our last five events -- these will be the last five events ever for Fresh Grounded Faith -- I'm calling it the Grand Finale Tour. Now, do not think that means I'm finishing or I'm retiring.

KC Wright: Yes. Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: In fact, stay tuned. And if you've not ever signed up for my Java with Jennifer newsletter, please do so, because I'm going to be doing something very special in 2026. Besides all the events I already do, we're going to be doing a special tour, and I want to make sure you guys can be a part of it. Okay. But I also want to make sure that you don't miss out on Fresh Grounded Faith, if you want to come this fall, because it really is a special event. So those will also -- those tour dates will be on the Show Notes also.

KC Wright: And you can always find our girl right here. So if you love the podcast -- and I know you do -- please tell us by leaving a review. Because when you leave reviews, it helps all the things reach just one more heart for Jesus, and that's what it's all about.

Get with your people, spill the beans. We need each other. And you know what? You know the ending. Whatever you face, however you feel, you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and KC: And you can.