4:13 Podcast: Can I Start Small Habits To Grow Big Faith? With Hanna Seymour [Episode 398]

Hanna Seymour: If I want to become a woman who loves God, loves God's Word and knows God's Word, instead of setting a goal that is, I want to read the Bible in a year, I actually want an identity-based goal to be what I just said, I want to be a woman who knows and loves God's Word.

Now, reading the Bible in a year can vote towards that, but the science of habit formation says if you have not cultivated a habit of daily opening your Bible, signing up for a 365 from Genesis to Revelation plan, that's going big or going home. We don't have to start with these lofty goals. We start small, easy, make it fit into our lives, and then let it grow.

Jennifer Rothschild: Sixty-five percent of Christian women admit that they are not satisfied with their spiritual lives. Hmm. Curious, are you one of them? Well, today author Hanna Seymour is going to combine the science of habit formation with the practice of spiritual disciplines to help you.

She's gonna help you take small steps to grow your faith in very big ways, my friend. You are gonna learn how to start Bible reading and prayer habits. Plus, you will learn how to incorporate solitude, celebration, and community as Hanna gives us super practical ways to develop some life-changing habits. So let's get this podcast started.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: That was KC Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. And you know the drill. It's just two friends and one topic and zero stress here under the closet. But KC is actually not here today. I just used his recorded voice. I had to get some stuff done quickly and we could not coordinate our schedule. So, my friends, you get me. But you don't just get me. I brought a special guest.

Now, let me tell you why. So since we're talking about small habits today, I thought it would be fun to have a small person show you what it looks like to develop habits. Okay. So you know I've got these grandchildren. In fact, I will just tell you this. Our oldest son, Clayton, and his wife, Caroline, I swear, I think they are building the 12 Tribes of Rothschild. They have had their fifth child already. And so I think we're done, but we're not sure.

But this one that you're about to hear from is little John Robert. Now, they are all adorable. And so John Robert likes to sing. He likes to sing (singing) Who Let the Dogs Out? Yes, that's one of his favorites. And, of course, Baby Shark. But they teach him all sorts of hymns and spiritual songs. And so Caroline, my daughter-in-law, caught this for me and sent it, and I just thought you guys need to hear this little precious boy beginning with small habits. I think this is gonna bless you. Here's John Robert.

John Robert Rothschild: (Singing) Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so. Little ones to him belong, for the Bible tells me so. Little ones to him belong, they are weak but he is strong. Yes, Jesus loves me, the Bible tells me so.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, adorable. Didn't get all the lyrics in the right places, but, hey, he got the right concept going on. And it's true, Jesus does love us. But I just wanted you to hear that, because it just shows small habits are gonna grow big faith in that little boy's life. And the same thing is true for you. So that's what we're gonna talk about today.

I can't tell you how much I appreciated this conversation, especially as a psychology major, just seeing how she's applying -- Hanna is applying these habits that we -- we create small habits and our brains learn them. And it just makes a big difference. So let me introduce Hanna, in case she is new to you.

She is an author and she's a Bible teacher and she is also a podcast host. And this woman is passionate about helping people walk passionately and faithfully with Jesus in their normal lives. She's a seminary graduate, she's a wife, and she is a mom of three, and today she's a 4:13er. So settle in and let's learn together.

All right, Hanna, one thing that caught my eye immediately was this survey you did. So I want to start with this survey that you did. Okay. Two thousand Christian women. And it revealed something interesting. So I want you to tell us what it revealed. But then I want you to go a step further and tell us what you think the reasons were for what it revealed.

Hanna Seymour: Sure, sure. So I had the privilege of putting together a survey that over 2,100 Christian women took. These were women that said they were between the ages of 25 and -- oh, I don't remember the cap. Under 50. We were going for the millennial Christian woman.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Hanna Seymour: And I asked them a lot of questions just about their season of life, their spiritual life, and 65% of those 2,100 women reported that they were unsatisfied with their spiritual lives. And so right away I'm looking at that stat going, whoa, what is happening underneath here?

Because there were other answers about, like, there is joy in my life, my life does look pretty much like I thought it would look, so, you know, there's both contentment and discontentment happening in our lives. But the number one desire that I saw over and over and over in these answers was that these women were craving consistency in their spiritual walk, but specifically consistency in what we usually call spiritual disciplines. So Bible reading, prayer, Christian community, daily time with God.

But I think the heart of it was we live very busy, very chaotic lives. And there are a lot of great books out there that tell you, you know, stop it, slow down. But I always kind of laugh. I'm like, I have three children. And I homeschool them three days a week and I have a job outside of that and, you know, like, I don't -- there's not much that I can cut out, you know. My friend that's telling me to stop being busy --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. I get you. I mean, you don't even have time to stop to read the book that tells you to stop. I get you.

Hanna Seymour: Exactly. Exactly.

So, you know, these women, they're not craving a rescheduling, restructuring of their lives, they don't want grand spiritual feats, they just want to show up consistently before the Lord and with God's people.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. And so that sounds so accessible and so doable, yet we all struggle. In fact, when you gave the list of consistent Bible reading, prayer, I thought, yeah, all the things that induce guilt, because we don't seem like we can do it well. But it's an invitation.

So one of the things you contend in your book is that -- kind of the remedy is small habits. Okay? Because we often think of spiritual habits as these long, like, very demanding things. So since your survey was for these busy people -- and let's be honest, that's most of us. It's very few of us that don't have these kind of demanding lives. So how can we, as busy people, pull this off, start these small habits?

Hanna Seymour: Yep. So the thing that we say a lot about the book is that it takes spiritual disciplines out of the pulpit and the monastery, because we think -- just what you were saying about spiritual disciplines being these long, back-breaking things that the professional Christians do, right? But most of us aren't going to become a monk or nun anytime soon --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Hanna Seymour: -- or a professional Christian or a pastor, and it places those practices in your kitchen, your commute, and your everyday routines.

So for me what happened, I was in seminary and I'm reading all of these incredible texts about spiritual disciplines, spiritual formation. And then in my free time, I was nerding out in these science of habit formation books. And I was drawn to that because I was rethinking my own life of fitness and nutrition. I'd had three babies in three and a half years and I was just trying to get some things straight in my life.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Yeah, I get that.

Hanna Seymour: And I'm reading the science of habit formation and I'm learning how to actually create a habit that sticks and lasts and puts you on the path of who you want to become. And I thought, wait a second. Why are we not applying this concept, these ideas of small habits?

Because the science tells us you take the large goal that you want. You want to run a marathon. Okay, that's an objective-based goal. Let's change it to an identity-based goal, which is I want to become a runner, and then we create small habits that continually place a vote, that continually help us show up to becoming a runner.

So all that to say, I started going, oh my gosh, this applies to spiritual disciplines. If I want to become a woman who loves God, loves God's Word and knows God's Word, instead of setting a goal that is, I want to read the Bible in a year, I actually want an identity-based goal to be what I just said, I want to be a woman who knows and loves God's Word.

Now, reading the Bible in a year can vote towards that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Sure.

Hanna Seymour: But the science of habit formation says if you have not cultivated a habit of daily opening your Bible, signing up for a 365 from Genesis to Revelation plan, that's going big or going home. We don't have to start with these lofty goals. We start small, easy, make it fit into our lives, and then let it grow.

So that was the way I kind of distilled the science of habit formation and then said let's look at that. Let's look at how we can make all these spiritual disciplines small, easy, fit into your everyday life and then let it grow.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I love this so much. And so we're going to go into these disciplines specifically, but let me just pause here. Because it is so profound and biblical, this science of habit formation, making it identity-based rather than objective-based, because of who we are in Christ, this makes so much sense. So I love that. And it's so logical. I want to be a woman, you know, who follows hard after God's heart. I don't want to necessarily pull off all my disciplines by 9 AM for the sake of being an objective goal meeter.

Hanna Seymour: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I love that, Hanna. And I want that to soak into our listeners because that's powerful right there.

Okay. So now let's kind of go through some of the things that make up these disciplines. Okay? So lots of us feel very defeated when it comes to reading the Bible because we think it has to be this, you know, two-hour event every morning. And so you write that Scripture intake does not have to be long or complicated to be transformative. And so you encourage what you call seed-sized Bible habits. So I want you to explain that. What does that look like on an ordinary Tuesday for us?

Hanna Seymour: Yeah. So again, a seed habit is a small, easy habit that fits into our day. And so I tell a story in the book about Billy Graham. He kept open Bibles in practically every room in his house. And he would stop -- as he walked through a room, he'd stop by that Bible, where it was open to that page, and he would read just a few seconds. And then he'd walk into the next room and read over there a few seconds. And his grandson tells this story, and kind of joking he's like, you know, "Granddad, what could you possibly be getting from the Bible in that short amount of time?" And Billy Graham looked at his grandson and said, "I sip on the Word of God all day long."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, wow.

Hanna Seymour: And so I talk about that in that chapter of let's sip and sip and sip all day long on the Word of God. So if you have never cultivated a daily habit of opening your Bible -- and I genuinely mean that, just opening your Bible --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Hanna Seymour: -- then maybe your seed habit is, if you're a coffee drinker, you leave an open Bible next to your coffee machine. I recommend turning to that book of Philippians. It's probably my favorite book to come back to. And when you press start on your coffee machine, start Philippians 1:1. Read a few verses. Go do, you know, whatever you normally do, come back, fill up your cup, maybe you read a few more verses. But that is the tiniest seed habit that we can start.

And then throughout that chapter I talk about studying memorizing, meditating. And memorizing and meditating Scripture are maybe my favorite ways to sprinkle seed habits of Scripture throughout your day, because you can do that when your hands are busy and your mind's free. So you can work on meditating Scripture or memorizing Scripture when you're in between sets at the gym, when you're in the carpool line, when you're washing dishes, folding laundry.

You know, there's all these things we do all day long, where our hands are busy and our mind is free, and we can be sprinkling seeds, listening to audio -- you know, Scripture being read to us, all these different ways that we can just sip on the word of God all day long.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I love this so much. You're my kind of girl, because this is how I do it. Like, I teach Bible study, and I write them and I love it. But this is how I just process the Word during the day. And I will do it through my phone. Because I'm blind, my phone talks to me. And so I will have verses sent to me through different Bible apps. And sometimes it'll show up on a text message, sometimes it'll be a notification.

But I literally -- whatever it is, that's my verse. And I will read it the first time, I will listen to it during the day. I will seek to memorize it, I'll begin to meditate. And that's how I do it too. Because I can't handle a ton more than that because I want to really absorb it.

And when you think about it, Hanna, if you're thirsty, you just need to sip. First of all you need to sip. Otherwise, if you gulp it all down, you're just not going to feel good, you're not going to absorb it. You just need to sip. And so I love this. And I would presume that in this chapter you do give -- like the coffee maker example, you give us some very practical ways to do this so that it'll be easy for the reader.

Hanna Seymour: Yep, yep. And, I mean, just like you were saying, I think -- I love and I care a lot about having an early morning moment with the Lord.

Jennifer Rothschild: Same.

Hanna Seymour: You know, I want to be in solitude. I want to have my Bible and my coffee and I want to study the Scripture. You know, I'll read and then kind of go into some commentaries. That's how I'm wired. And I've been trained to do that, and I love it.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I love that too, yeah.

Hanna Seymour: But what I've found is sometimes I can close my Bible after that time in the morning and never think about it again through the rest of the day. But when I started implementing these seed habits throughout my day, it just re-tethers me to the Lord over and over and over again, rewashes my mind. We are constantly talking to ourselves, constantly thinking things in our head. And for me to be replacing my thoughts, that are either selfish or anxiety ridden or, you know, whatever, with the Word of God, it's radically transformed my life.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love this. Well, and it moves it, Hanna, from being just informational to relational, which is the goal.

Okay, so let's talk about another one. Because whenever I do any kind of conversation podcast about prayer -- I mean, I cannot tell you how the women respond to this. I think it's because we all feel the angst. All right?

Hanna Seymour: I know.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's another area where we might feel a little guilt or confusion because we think, well, there's a perfect prayer life, and clearly I don't have it. So talk to us about prayer life with seed habits.

Hanna Seymour: So my favorite seed habit with prayer -- and maybe -- let's just back up real quick and say, you know, I think all Christians feel guilt or shame -- and we could talk about the difference between those two -- when it comes to our prayer life. And I take so much solace that the one thing that is recorded for us in Scripture, that the disciples asked Jesus, was, "Teach us how to pray." That is the only thing we have recorded that they specifically asked Jesus to teach them. And so, man, if the guys that hung out with Jesus pretty much 24/7 for three years needed help learning how to pray, I think that should just make us feel better.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, amen. Yeah.

Hanna Seymour: But I think prayer specifically, we have this idea of what it should look like, what it should sound like, how long it should be. And so I think making a prayer life, you know, giving it seed habit form and sprinkling it throughout your day, I think it takes the pressure off of approaching the Lord in a certain way with the right things and the right way.

And my favorite seed habit for prayer is start -- so when I say make it small, make it easy, make it fit into your day, when we talk about that make it fit, we want to identify triggers in our day that will remind us to pray or remind us to do whatever habit it is that we want.

Jennifer Rothschild: Sure.

Hanna Seymour: And so a trigger that I've started is when I start to wait. We wait on average -- you know, sources say anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes a day. We're waiting in line for things, we're waiting on people. You know, I'm waiting for my children to put their shoes on and get in the car. You're waiting for a meeting to begin. We wait on tech, like elevators, microwaves, you know, all these different things. Twenty to 40 minutes. What if -- and you're not going to catch it every time. But what if today you said, okay, today when I realize I'm waiting, instead of grabbing my phone -- because that's actually what we do usually when we wait --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, yes.

Hanna Seymour: -- and the trigger is grab the phone -- I'm going to pray. And all I'm going to do is just take a breath and say, "Hi, Lord, I'm here."

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Hanna Seymour: What do we need to talk about right now? Will you bring to my mind what have I been worried about? What are some sinful thoughts that maybe I've had, some negative thoughts about other people? You know, just whatever, like, But, Lord, I'm here. Let's talk. What is on my heart that I need to confess to you? And then help me to listen for your guidance and your spirit to work in me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Brilliant. This is so practical. I just love this.

Okay. So these feel very doable, how you just described Bible reading and how you describe prayer. But then there's the biggie, I think, for busy people, solitude.

Hanna Seymour: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So how do we really practice this that's doable? Well, first of all, like, define it for us and then apply it to real people with real lives.

Hanna Seymour: Okay. Biblical solitude is being alone with God. So solitude is not just about being alone and being in silence. It's about being aware of God's presence, that he is with you. And a lot of times solitude is an umbrella habit, meaning we do other things. You know, I'll say I have time of solitude in the morning. Well, usually I've got my Bible open and I'm probably praying in that pocket of solitude.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Hanna Seymour: When I was reading these texts in seminary and digging into solitude, it was very discouraging to me because so much of the advice is getting solitude early in the morning. Which, listen, again, I like that. I love that. But there has been a -- I had three babies in three and a half years, so there was a season of life that I just could -- I could not do it, Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: No. I get it.

Hanna Seymour: I could not wake up any earlier than that infant, because that infant woke me up like, three hours ago, you know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. Yeah.

Hanna Seymour: It wasn't a thing.

So early in the morning -- which that was Jesus' habit. And so I think that's where we get that idea from. We needed to wake up early in the morning, still in the darkness before the sun has come up, and have alone time with God. Yes. I love that, and that is -- I think there are seasons of life when we can do that. But it's an invitation, not a command, I would say. Some may argue with that.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, I agree.

Hanna Seymour: And then the other side is all of this advice of we'll go on a solitude retreat. Well, again, hello. I am a mom of three children eight and under. I do not have a weekend.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Hanna Seymour: Some may say, well, you just need to prioritize it. But Donald Whitney had this idea of minute retreats. And this is really where I, you know, hung my hat on. I thought, this is a seed habit. This works for us, this works for women in a similar season of life as me, or just a busy woman. I can have a minute of solitude.

And so my moments of solitude started in the pantry with the light off. Sometimes I might be, you know, eating a little snack. But it went from I'm hiding from my children or I'm trying to just be alone for a minute or be in silence, to, oh, wait a minute, I'm alone with God. So again, this is a connection point with the Lord.

And I think solitude -- I used waiting as an example for, you know, a seed habit to pray. But I think waiting is a great time for any spiritual discipline, and we can use moments when we're waiting on something to just go, wait, I'm just gonna shut everything out right now, shut out all the noise and just be alone with God for 30 seconds, for 60 seconds, and re-tether myself to him.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And what it does is -- it's reinforcing this virtuous cycle you're creating. Because we're wanting identity-based goals, not objective. And so again, it's putting you back in that situation of you're the daughter; he's the Father.

You know, Hanna, I wish I could remember exactly. So I know I might get this wrong, listeners. But it was Charles Wesley -- it was the Wesley brothers' mother, I believe. She had maybe --

Hanna Seymour: Susanna.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- nine kids. Susanna. Did you hear that story of how she would sit in the kitchen and put her apron over her head?

Hanna Seymour: Yes. It's one of my favorites.

Jennifer Rothschild: And it meant I'm being alone with God. I know. Okay. So busy moms, you know, put your hoodie over your head, whatever. But it is a very realistic, beautiful way to just, yeah, build those seed habits.

Now, one of them, though, I gotta say, that you are dealing with in the book, that surprised me and I'm very interested in, is -- you say that friendship is a spiritual habit. Okay, this is very cool. Because I'm curious how you think friendship can affect our spiritual growth. And all of us have friends. So are there small habits that we can develop within these friendships that can, you know, start to develop this spiritual discipline?

Hanna Seymour: Yeah. So in most spiritual discipline books that you'll find, they are going to list fellowship or community as a spiritual discipline. And I think it's vital to our spiritual growth. But as I was chewing on these ideas, I thought, you know, a smaller habit that leads to Christian community and fellowship is just friendship. And so what if we kind of zoom in on what it looks like to have Christ-centered friendship and plant seed habits that grow Christ-centered friendship that will lead us to having Christian community and fellowship.

And to your point, I do not believe -- God did not create us to be in relationship with him, just us and him. And, I mean, I love the term, you know, do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? I think it's -- you know, that came about in the 80s when the Protestant church was really kind of starting to grapple with how do we make sure people actually know God and aren't just, like, doing the things, just showing up at church, and so this idea of a personal relationship with Jesus.

But it doesn't mean it's supposed to be individualistic. We were created for community. And I grew up always hearing my dad say, you know, apart from three things, you will not grow in the Christian faith: God's Word, God's Spirit, and God's people. We need God's people to be rubbing shoulder to shoulder with and doing life with to help us grow.

And so this was probably my most challenging chapter to give actual small, easy habits that fit into your day. Right? Because friendship is not a small or easy thing.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Hanna Seymour: But neither are any of these other disciplines if you just, you know, take them at face value or whatever.

So ideas that I give is really first just starting to identify, okay, where are the friendships in my life? Who are the people God has put in this season of life for me? And let's write their names out. And then let's think about are there friendships that are good friendships, and they're believers, but we could go deeper. They're not really Christ-centered friendships, they're just good, great friends. I love that.

But how then can we take those friendships -- and my easiest favorite seed habit is, you know, I dare you today to text your top three friends and just say, hey, how can I be praying for you this week? They will feel so cared for. And then you gotta actually pray for them. Okay?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, right, right.

Hanna Seymour: But that is the smallest, easiest way to just start saying, hey, I want to do this life with you, but in tandem with Christ. And so how can I be praying for you? How can I be supporting you and encouraging you in your journey with the Lord? How can we be -- you know, as iron sharpens iron, how can we be doing that for each other?

Jennifer Rothschild: And then what you've done is -- again it's building these seed habits because then you're praying.

Hanna Seymour: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I will say this, Hanna. One of the things I do with my phone, my text messaging app, is literally that's how -- one of the ways I do these disciplines of prayer is I'll just pray for the first five people that are on there, whoever my last five texts were.

Hanna Seymour: I love that.

Jennifer Rothschild: And it's a way for me to have this list in front of me of, okay -- but to actually reach out and allow them to feel cared for and say, "What is your prayer?" I love that.

One of the things I do too -- I'll just mention to our listeners. I have a couple of really good friends, and I will literally text them and say, "What's your adjective today?" And what I'm saying is, I want you to give me one adjective to describe how you are, and then we will pray for each other's adjective. You know, I feel alone, I feel afraid, I feel happy. Well, thank you, Lord. I'm going to, you know, mourn with those who mourn, I'm going to celebrate with those who celebrate.

So there are creative ways, yeah, that you do have access to. But it's intentionality. Everything that you've talked about so far, Sister, is intentional. And it is worthy of taking five minutes to just sit down when this podcast ends and say, okay, how am I going to be intentional about what I've heard today?

And I can tell you one of the ways, 4:13ers, is to get Hanna's book, because it's chock full of practical ways, so you don't have to reinvent the wheel here. You can just take her advice. Because I can tell you live your advice, Hanna.

All right, Sister, we're going to get to our last question.

Hanna Seymour: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: Because there is someone listening right now and she does feel so spiritually dry. She's like, oh, my gosh, you just -- you know, that's so much to put on my spiritual to do list, and I'm already disconnected and overwhelmed. So help that listener know, what is the first tiniest step that she can take today when this podcast ends?

Hanna Seymour: So first let me say this. Spiritual growth, I don't believe -- I don't believe that it happens usually in big, dramatic moments. It grows through small, faithful habits practiced over time. And so these seed habits, they compound into a life of living faithfully with and for Christ.

So if you're just overwhelmed and, like, I don't even know where to start, first I would ask, where do you want to start? You know, is -- because, again, we want to make a habit that's small and easy. And the easiest habit is the one that you're drawn to. So is it I haven't cracked open my Bible in three months, but I kind of feel like that's what I should do? Okay. Well, pull out your phone -- because you got a Bible on that phone, I'm pretty sure -- and listen or read a few verses.

Or maybe it's I haven't talked to God. I don't remember the last time I prayed. Or I feel so much shame when I think about my prayer life and my lack of it. Okay. Well, let's just say goodbye to that shame -- shame is from the enemy -- and take a moment. The second that this episode is over, sit in 60 seconds of silence, of solitude with God, and pray. And again, the simplest prayer, Lord, I'm here. Hi. What do you have for me today? And just see where he leads.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, my friends, you heard her simple question. Where do you want to start? The easiest habit to begin is the one you are drawn to. So think about it. Pick one, if it's Scripture you need. Well, I loved this. Just open your Bible and put it next to your coffee maker. You just read one verse while the coffee is brewing. Or if it's prayer, you just spend 60 seconds in prayer while you wait for, you know, the microwave to warm up whatever it is you're warming up. Or you get a long prayer time if you're doing microwave popcorn. But just pray. Pray what Hanna suggested, "Lord, I am here."

Y'all, I just thought this was such practical guidance, and I'm just super grateful for reframing habits into small, tiny seeds rather than just what feels like these Mount Everests of effort. So go to the Show Notes to get her book and read the transcript, because you'll also be able to share it with someone easily from there. Because you know somebody also needs it just like we did. I needed it,. so...

All right, until next week, just remember, you can begin just one small habit, because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can. Don't forget, you can too. See you next week.