4:13 Podcast: Can I Tame My Thoughts To Transform My Life? With Max Lucado [Episode 380]

Max Lucado: It's not enough just to pull up false truth. We've got to replant it with truth. I encourage people, get yourself four or five Scriptures, go-to Scriptures that help you face whatever your struggle is, and pull up that thought of insecurity and replace it with a Scripture that says, "I'm fearfully and wonderfully made." Now, pull up that thought of fear that says this is going to be so much work and replace it with, "All things work together for good for those who love him."

So we're pulling up those thoughts of anxiety or guilt or lust, whatever they might be, and we're replacing them with truth. That's really important.

A lot of people talk about uprooting or meditating or cleaning out your mind, but Jesus talks a lot about depositing, implanting truth in your heart.

Jennifer Rothschild: When was the last time that you woke up to a swirl of anxious, out-of-control thoughts? Or maybe you were just overwhelmed with worry, the fear of failing, or maybe it was guilt that was just weighing you down. The way we think will directly impact our joy and our peace.

So if you've ever been there, and like maybe this morning, today author and pastor Max Lucado is going to give you three biblical and practical tools to renew your mind and transform your life. There is no one quite like Max to bring gentle and profound clarity to our lives, so get ready to tame those thoughts, 'cause off we go.

KC Wright: Welcome, welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you and do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, friends. That was KC Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. Here we are in the closet in the middle of December, and it is just two friends, with one topic and zero stress. And it is our goal to help you be and do more than you even feel capable of as you are living the "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13.

And you remember, Philippians 4:13, it is not your magical Christian superpower. No. It is your response to Christ's life in you. Whether it is doing hard things, doing easy things, doing all things, it is through Christ that you can learn contentment and you can become the person he's created you to be. His power, not yours. All right, we got that set.

Now, listen, we are talking today with one of our favorite people. KC and I love Max Lucado.

KC Wright: Oh, my goodness.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm sorry. I think everybody in America, in the world, loves Max Lucado.

KC Wright: Well, he is known as America's pastor.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, he is. You're right. You're right. And he's just -- when I said he's going to provide gentle clarity like no one else can, it is just Max's signature, the way God made him. And so we're super grateful. And I got to say, this is also one of my favorite topics.

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Because if you have followed the ministry God gave me for any amount of time, you know I've written several books and Bible studies on this concept, "Me, Myself, & Lies: A Thought Closet Makeover," what to say when you talk to yourself.

KC Wright: It's so good.

Jennifer Rothschild: I've even been able to write a young women's version, which is for teenage girls. So listen, Christmas is coming. Mamas, grandmamas, if you want to help shape your granddaughters' minds, get her that book. It's "Me, Myself & Lies for Young Women." You know, about age 11-ish to 16-ish. And then when they grow up, KC, they don't have to waste money on the grown-up book. I'm sure even Max would agree.

But anyway, the reason I wrote it, KC, is because I needed it, honestly.

KC Wright: Right, right.

Jennifer Rothschild: I mean, I think we all struggle --

KC Wright: We all do.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- with this. And, you know, because sometimes our thoughts, they just feel out of control. So many, so crazy.

KC Wright: Well, here's some research that will blow your mind. According to the Cleveland Clinic, the average person has 70,000 thoughts each day. That means 25 million thoughts each year, and almost 2 billion thoughts over the course of a lifetime. And the potential power of 2 billion thoughts is equally monumental. Many experts believe 75% to 98% of mental, physical, and behavioral illness comes from one's thought life.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

KC Wright: We are what we think about.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right?

KC Wright: What is that little saying? Be careful of your thoughts, because your thoughts determine your actions; be careful of your actions, because your actions determine your character; be careful of your character, because your character determines your destiny. It all starts in between our ears.

Jennifer Rothschild: It really does. It makes such a difference. I think, my people, we are convinced -- right? -- that we need to tame our thoughts. Okay. So let's just sit back, take a deep breath, and let's invite Pastor Max -- who needs no introduction. But we're still going to introduce him, and then he's going to help us tame our thoughts.

KC Wright: With more than 150 million products in print, Max Lucado, America's pastor, is known for combining poetic storytelling and homespun humor with the heart of a pastor. The best preacher in America he's been dubbed by Reader's Digest, and the Ted Lasso of Pastors --

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that. I've never heard that. He is the Ted Lasso of Pastors.

KC Wright: -- by the Dallas Morning News. Yeah. Max Lucado has penned -- this is mind-blowing -- more than 40 works of adult non-fiction.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, that's crazy.

KC Wright: His books have been published in 56 different languages worldwide. But you're about to hear that he speaks the language of the heart the best, and he and our girl JR are going to unpack what it means to tame your thoughts. Oh, my goodness, Max Lucado and Jennifer Rothschild in the same podcast? Oh, this is going to be so good. Here we go.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Pastor Max, America's pastor, I'm glad you're back with us again. And we're going to talk about your latest book, "Tame Your Thoughts." Okay. So in your book you write that the brain is not a published book. I think this is fascinating. But it's not like it's completed early in life, but instead, it is an editable manuscript. So let's start there. Like, what do you mean by that, and how does it impact our brain and our thinking?

Max Lucado: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks first of all for letting me be on your program. And I send my love and respect to you and your entire family and team. And just let me quickly mention that I'm in our podcast room at the church building where I serve, and about -- on the other side of the church building, there is a group of about 120 women, including my wife, who are studying your study on Heaven right now. So I thought that was pretty cool.

Jennifer Rothschild: That is so cool. I love that, Pastor. That's so cool. Thank you, Lord.

Max Lucado: Yeah. At the same time I'm talking to you, you're talking to them. That's cool. That's cool.

Jennifer Rothschild: Very cool.

Max Lucado: Yeah, the fancy $2 technical term is "neuroplasticity." I think the big discovery that neuroscience has pointed out over the last few decades is that our brains change, you know. You can quite literally change your mind literally -- I mean physically. As we create new habits, whether they be good or bad, the brain takes on a different shape.

And so as you develop these skills or habits -- if I try to learn to brush my teeth left-handed instead of right-handed, it will change my shape of my brain. It's furrows, somebody calls them, just furrows or ditches. And through these ditches, through these furrows, there is a -- somebody else called them a rut. I thought that was funny. Kind of like a rut. And these synapses, because they begin to fire up and down, a certain portion of the brain or rut is created.

You know, Romans 12 urges us, "Do not be conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." I have no reason to think Paul ever heard the term "neuroplasticity," but I do think he, by the power of the Holy Spirit, was already saying don't be conformed, but be transformed, and that happens as you invite God to renew your mind.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. That's really cool, isn't it, when you think about it, that our thoughts are so powerful that they translate into those -- for lack of a better word, because I am not a scientist, synapses that are so powerful that they can carve ruts and furrows in our brain. I mean, it just shows the power of it.

Max Lucado: It does.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so if that's the theory of it all, which is fascinating, I'm curious about the personal nature of it. Because when you write a book like this, of course there's going to be theory and Scripture and theology. But I'm curious, Pastor, did you -- or do you ever struggle with your thoughts, and have you had to tame your own thoughts?

Max Lucado: Absolutely. Absolutely. And what this does is it helps us begin to identify thought patterns or habits that we have. We might tend to assume the worst in every situation. We might tend to be judgmental. We might tend to equate success with possessions. We might tend to -- especially guys -- look at the ladies, and before they acknowledge that's a human being, you know, their mind goes where it shouldn't go. These are habits that we have. And the good news is they can be changed. They can be changed. You asked if I have them. Oh, my goodness do I have them.

Here's an interesting one I think you'll appreciate. I've been a pastor now forever, it seems, and I was ordained in 1979. And I noticed the oddest thing. After I would present a message, whether it be in a Bible class or a sermon, or even a big arena event, and then talk to people after the message, let's say ten people tell me I did a great job. One person tells me -- or brings up a question or is critical or says you kind of -- you know who's going to dominate my thoughts?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, I do, because they dominate mine. Yes. And it doesn't matter the nine that said anything good. All you can do --

Max Lucado: I know. I know.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- is obsess over and beat yourself up over the one. I get it. Yeah.

Max Lucado: So that's an example of a thought that I am trying to tame, you know. Why do I go down that path? Why do I assume that person knew what they were talking about? Maybe they just had a bad day. Or maybe they were being genuinely critical in a positive way and I could learn a lesson. But rather than do that, my habit -- and I use that word "habit" on purpose because it is a habit -- my habit is to spiral a bit, you know, say, Oh, well, maybe I'm not -- maybe this isn't my calling, you know, maybe I should have -- you know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

Max Lucado: It's just bizarre, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: You're ready to quit ministry.

Max Lucado: Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Totally get it.

Max Lucado: So taming our thoughts is so important.

Jennifer Rothschild: I appreciate you saying it's a habit. And we're going to get practical in this next question about your toolkit, but I want to just preface by saying this. I recognize the habit of it also because I have that same tendency with my thoughts. And it's interesting, one of the things that the Lord has used for me is to say, hmm, I could be wrong. I could be wrong. Or -- and then I used to just stop there and think, oh, yeah, I could be wrong. I probably am wrong. Everything's wrong. It's all wrong. But now I'm able to say, yeah, I could be wrong, so be humble and receive the critique; but also, they could be wrong. That was quite a hard way to train my thinking, but it's helped me.

And so that's what your book does, Pastor. You are helping us to tame our thoughts. And you get uber practical. So you have a toolkit to help us retrain our brains. So I'd love an overview of what is in this toolkit.

Max Lucado: Okay. Thank you again. You're such a delight to talk to. You are, man. This is fun.

So, yeah, I've got three tools. The book is super simple in its organization. I have an introductory chapter and then three tools, and each tool gets a chapter. And then I take those tools and I apply those tools to common thought patterns that are typically unhealthy. And so I'm hoping the reader will read the opening chapter, then read the next three chapters. And if you don't have time to read the whole book, that's okay. Read the Table of Contents, find that one thought pattern that relates to your struggle, and see if it helps.

So here are the three tools. First of all, "Practice Picky Thinking." The subtitle would be, "Just Because You Have a Thought, You Don't Have To Think It." You stand guard at the entryway of your mind and you take every thought captive. Again quoting from the Apostle Paul. You take every thought captive. You become diligent in guarding your thoughts. Just because you have that thought doesn't mean you have to think it.

And then secondly, "Identify UFOs." UFO is just a tool I use to help me remember thought progression. And it goes like this. An untruth leads to a false narrative that leads to an overreaction.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh, that's good.

Max Lucado: An untruth leads to a false narrative that leads to an overreaction. Here's a very practical example that just came my way last night. We got word that a portion of our house, the wall next to the master bathroom, has mold in it. Mold. Oh, my goodness.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Max Lucado: And so I woke up thinking, oh, my goodness, what's this going to cost? What's it going to take? So here's the untruth. We'll never get that thing fixed. It's going to be that way forever. That's the untruth. That leads to a false narrative. It's going to cost way too much. I'm going to be putting up with this for months on end, we're going to have to close off -- it's a false. I don't know that yet. That then leads to an overreaction. I actually had this thought before I caught myself. Let's just sell this place.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.

Max Lucado: Let's just get out. You know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Max Lucado: See what happened?

Jennifer Rothschild: Or burn it down.

Max Lucado: Yeah, burn it down, yeah.

And so the untruth -- I did catch myself, and I said, Lucado, come on. Don't go there. You don't know anything yet. You've not even had a remediation guy come and look at it yet. But that's a tool we have to use. What untruth is leading to a false narrative? Many people, their life is a complete overreaction because they're responding to a lie that the devil has placed in their heart.

And then lastly, the third tool is called "Uproot and Replant." Here's where Scripture is so important, Jennifer. It's not enough just to pull up the false truth. We've got to replant it with truth.

I encourage people, get yourself four or five Scriptures, go-to Scriptures that help you face whatever your struggle is, and pull up that thought of insecurity and replace it with a Scripture that says, "I'm fearfully and wonderfully made." Now, pull up that thought of fear that says this is going to be so much work and replace it with, "All things work together for good for those who love him." So we're pulling up those thoughts of anxiety or guilt or lust, whatever they might be, and we're replacing them with truth. That's really important.

A lot of people talk about uprooting or meditating or cleaning out your mind. But Jesus talks a lot about depositing, implanting truth in your heart.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and that goes back to what you just explained when we started our conversation. You're literally carving new pathways of truth --

Max Lucado: Yes. That's a good point.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- so that your thoughts can travel that direction. I mean, I would think it takes discipline at first, but then it just becomes more natural as a habit. That's really good.

And you know what else I loved is your UFOs. Sometimes we just have overreactions and we never figure out why.

Max Lucado: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I love that you can go backwards with that too and say what's that false narrative and what is that untruth? That's super practical.

Okay, so I love the toolkit and I love how your book is designed. And now let's just hit a couple of them, like a couple of these struggles. Because something that I think we deal with is sometimes we just have this unsettled angst, like a general lack of peace. So talk to us about the negative thinking that could lead to that.

Max Lucado: There is no doubt that anxiety is the big bully on the block for most people. It dominates -- and, you know, it really dominates our young people, our teenagers. And there's a thousand and one reasons for that, but it's like their world never gets turned off. When I was growing up, I'd come home from school and I could disengage from all my peers and just be with my family. Young people today come home, and thanks to social media, their peers are always talking to them. They're always being compared to somebody or having to post something.

So it's really taking its toll on our young people. 42% of high schoolers express personal, persistent feelings of sadness, and 22% have contemplated suicide in the last six months. And so it's really taking its toll on our young people.

So here's how we would apply those tools to anxiety. First of all, we acknowledge that some anxiety is helpful. Some anxiety helps us because it's a God-given tool to keep us from jumping in a snake pit or walking across a busy road. But persistent anxiety is kind of like a house alarm that never goes off. It just keeps wailing and sounding, and it's really hard. So anxiety happens when we think our world is spinning out of control, when we get a doctor diagnosis that's terrible or we've got some bills to pay that we can't pay.

Well, the untruth in the UFO here deceives us into believing that the problem has absolutely no solution. That there's no solution, that we're stuck and there will never be a solution. The consequential false narrative says my life is nothing but a maelstrom of messes. Everywhere I look, I have one problem. And then the overreaction sounds a bit like -- remember Chicken Little, who was always saying, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling"?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

Max Lucado: So it's a doomsday consequence.

To deal with that, you go back to Jesus Christ. This anxiety is calmed, is settled when we remember that Christ is running the show. Ephesians 1:22 says, he is in charge of it all. He is in charge of it all. I love that phrase. He's in -- anxiety happens when we think, well, nobody's in charge. Well, Christ does run the show, so let that be the truth. Let that be the false narrative that says, yeah, this is a challenge, but Christ is in charge, and uproot the pandemonium and replant it with -- I love Ephesians 1:11, "God makes everything work out according to his plan."

So maybe take that Scripture, write it on an index card or a sticky note, put it where you can see it and just recite it over and over all day long. And what you're doing is you're creating a new furrow, you're creating a new rut. And in time, with time -- and it may take time -- you'll develop a new way of responding to the causes of anxiety in our lives.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And you got to be patient with that process. Because it took you some time to create the untruthful habit with the false narrative, and it might take a little time for you to really experience the joy, the lift. It just takes time. We got to be patient with this process.

So one of the things too -- because it is training your brain, and training takes time. So how could retraining your brain impact you in the area of guilt? Because there's a lot of people who -- I just got an email yesterday, a woman who said, "I know I'm forgiven, but I struggle with guilt over my past sins." How does retraining your brain impact guilt?

Max Lucado: That's an important one. I like to -- in fact, I think in the book I called guilt the Muhammad Ali of emotions, because it just beats us up. It just beats us up, you know, the I should have, I could have. I should have been a better mother, I could have been a better worker. And we just get beat up. It's such a joy as a pastor to proclaim forgiveness of sins over an audience. I do that every so often. And you can just see tears in people's eyes.

The UFO in this case could be something like the untruth, I'm beyond the grace of God. And the false narrative would be, well, either God is unfair to me or I am unfit for him. You know, we either get angry at God or we feel deeply insecure about God. And the overreaction is, well, everybody else can be forgiven. Grace is intended for everyone else except me. I'm sentenced to a life of shame without parole.

And Scripture in this case, Jennifer, gives us such a practical tool. And I really dig into this tool in the book, and it's called confession. Confession. Confession is when we agree with God about the reality of our sin. We say, "God, I'm sorry. I should not have had those thoughts last night," or, "I could have controlled my tongue better." I agree with you about the reality of the sin. We don't downplay it, we don't pretend it did not happen.

And for some, Jennifer, it's not just a moment, it's a season. It's a season. I was a rebel as a teenager. I was disrespectful as a young man. You know, I'm sorry, Lord. I agree with you. I confess that. So we deal with the untruth by confessing the truth.

And then the right narrative. The right narrative is taken from Scripture. If we confess our sins, he will forgive our sins. So we confess. James 5:16 says, "Confess your trespasses to one another. Pray for one another that you may be healed." So it could be that we confess our sins to someone else. We could all learn a lesson from Alcoholics Anonymous, you know. Hello, my name's Max, I'm an alcoholic. Hello, my name's Max, I'm a sinner.

And then we stand on the truth of God. There is no condemnation for those --

Jennifer Rothschild: Who are in Christ.

Max Lucado: -- there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Yeah. So we stand right there. Again, this could take time. Because, you know, Jennifer, these thoughts, they come from somewhere. And especially in the area of guilt. They could come from people of authority, like a pastor or like parents or like a big brother or sister, people we respected.

And they just kept speaking these words of condemnation over us and we begin to agree with them. But in order to be a healthy disciple and a constructive citizen, we have to take those thoughts captive and allow the grace of God to be the loudest voice in our lives.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's so good. And it's so hard. But, you know, as I'm listening to you, also I think it takes humility on our behalf and trust on our behalf to be willing to acknowledge the untruths, the false narratives, the overreactions, et cetera, and to be willing to say, okay, I'm going to trust God's truth over my feelings, because feelings are so powerful. And sometimes because they're so powerful, they feel so truthful. And they're not. So may we all have the humility and grace to really recognize.

All right, so let's move from guilt -- thank you, Lord -- to joy. Okay, we're going to move to joy, Pastor. In your book you have the ABCs of Joy. Can you recite those for us? Give us an idea what the ABCs of Joy are.

Max Lucado: I think you're testing my memory.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. And I hate it, because I'm an author too. Max. When people do that to me, I'm like, oh, Lord, please help me to remember. And you know what? If you don't remember, we're not even going to edit, we're just going to show how human we are.

Max Lucado: I think I can do it. I think I can do it.

Jennifer Rothschild: You can do it. All right. All right.

Max Lucado: Yeah. And, you know, these books, they're released months ago, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah. You're done with it. You've moved on.

Max Lucado: And I'm done with it and I'm -- I'm working on a great book right now, but that's not our topic. So maybe someday.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. I gotcha.

Max Lucado: And by the way, I want to hear your answers on some of these questions, Jennifer --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, goodness.

Max Lucado: -- so you're not getting off here.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Well, then if I had to quickly -- okay, I'm going to just see this, Pastor. If I could do a quick ABCs of Joy, I'd say attitude, belief, and -- I don't know what's C.

Max Lucado: That's close.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, what are yours?

Max Lucado: That's close. Mine is assess your joy level.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Max Lucado: Just pause every time -- pause throughout the day and say, now, am I joyful? You know, the Scripture has said -- Jesus said, "I want my joy to be in you." It's his desire that we have joy.

And, of course, just to quickly remind our listeners, joy is not some giddy, goofy feeling. Joy is a deep-rooted confidence in the goodness of God. And so am I joyful today? Is it deeply rooted within me, the goodness of God? So assess that.

And then also just believe that joy is possible. Believe that joy is possible. Again, don't consider that you're exempt from the promise of joy. And also, don't say, Well, I'm typically joyful, but this challenge I'm facing, nobody would be joyful. Yeah, they would, you know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Read the New Testament.

Max Lucado: Our Lord Jesus was talking about joy the night before he was crucified. And so again, it would be folly to think that life can be lived with no setbacks. But it would be equal folly to think that all those setbacks will steal all your joy. Our problems really have no more power over us than we allow them to have. Joy is more than a good mood. It's that deep-seated confidence in the goodness of God. And so believe that that joy is possible, and I think that you can find it.

And then lastly, call out for help.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh, good.

Max Lucado: Call out for help. "Lord, help me. Lord, I'm in the dumps today. Lord, I feel like I'm in the mud today. I'm calling out for help."

And one of the stories I tell in the book is one of the Lucado family lore. I grew up in a small -- super small West Texas town, out in the middle of nowhere, where the wind blows and tumbleweeds are everywhere. My dad was an oil field mechanic. And when I was growing up, he literally built with his hands every house but one that we lived in.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Max Lucado: He was super handy. I was so impressed with him. I can't even put in a light bulb. But he could build a house. And when I was young, he built the frame for a particular house, worked on it all weekend. And Monday one of those infamous West Texas windstorms blew in. And he went and checked on the frame later that day, and the entire frame had fallen over. It was leaning. He was going to have to start all over.

So the next morning he got to work. And he mentioned it to two or three friends and said, you know, I'm going to leave early today so I can work on that house. Well, by the time he got there, there were like 20 people who had taken off work. It was kind of like the Amish building a barn, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Max Lucado: And they had already stood up the frame and really gotten further than Dad would have gotten even if there had been no windstorm. And Dad used to share that story and say, "When you need help, just tell people. Just tell people." And I want to say, Tell God. Tell God. God, today I'm in the dumps. It's a slow day. You never know, you might end up further down the road than you were when you ever would have been if you'd not asked for help.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that. And then that sea can turn into cheer. Because I do believe --

Max Lucado: Now we're talking.

Jennifer Rothschild: Now we're talking. Because you just have never seen an unhappy joyful person. So when we've got the joy, I do believe it leads to just a sense of levity, cheer, lightness. Thank you, Lord. We need it.

Max Lucado: Amen.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right. You mentioned your beautiful wife early on here, Denalyn. She asked you a question one time. I thought this was interesting and I want you to unpack it. She asked you a question one time when you were struggling with something difficult or hard. Her question was, Is God in this anywhere? All right. So I don't know if you remember the situation --

Max Lucado: I do. I do.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- but I'm sure you can respond. Okay. Unpack that for us.

Max Lucado: It's a situation that anybody, everybody's gone through. In particular day, it was a variety of problems at the church where I pastor. Some people were complaining, and maybe rightly so, but I couldn't solve the problem. And then also I had a deadline. And you know this, Jennifer, as an author, it seems like every time you look up, there's another deadline.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, stress.

Max Lucado: And you can't really complain about it because you agreed to it, you know.

So I was just kind of getting pulled under. And I came home, and I was standing in the kitchen area and just listing all the woes and troubles of my life. And that's what she said. She said, "Well, Max, is God in this anywhere?" And what she was helping me do is remember to always include God in the equation. Include God in the equation.

That's what young David did when he fought Goliath. He was always referring to the Living God or the armies of the Living God. He made few references to Goliath, the giant, but he kept -- you know, who comes against the armies of the Living God? I mean, he was defiant, but his mind was saturated with God. And that's a great way to tame these spiraling quicksand thoughts, is just to make sure that we're meditating on the goodness of God.

And practically speaking, again, grab a verse or two that works for you. Keep worship music going. I have a good friend whose son tragically took his own life. It's been a few years now. And I remember he told me, "For 30 days, 24/7 we had praise music going in our house." Just to always have it in the background. Or listen to podcasts, listen to sermons, listen to Christian books or read books. Do something just to keep putting thoughts about God in the forefront of your mind.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, that's so good. Because sometimes we could be tempted to just say, wow, I just got a great formula from Max on how to tame my thoughts. But what you just did is you just couched it and blanketed it in the only truth that really will make the formula effective, and that is just the presence of God. He's the motivation and he's the goal. And his word is alive and will sustain us. So that's super, super helpful.

But I got to do something here. We got two more questions, Max. And this one -- like, I'm going to make an announcement to my podcasters that's going to blow their mind. Max Lucado got a tattoo. All right.

Max Lucado: Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right. So we got to discuss this tattoo. Why now? What is it? And what does it mean to you? This is so fun.

Max Lucado: March 12th, 1975, is when I came to Christ. I've done very few things for 50 years, but on March 12th, 2025, I realized that's the golden anniversary of grace in my life, and I wanted to commemorate it. So I got the Greek word -- the Greek phrase that Jesus -- is translated into, "It is finished" as Jesus hung on the cross. And so I have that "tetelestai," the Greek word, tattooed on the forearm, and it's a wonderful reminder. I love this -- I love for people to say, "What are you doing with a tattoo?"

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

Max Lucado: And I say, "Well, I'm an old converted drunk, and that commemorates that decision."

Jennifer Rothschild: Aw, that's beautiful. Yeah. Okay, I love that. I was curious. When I read you had a tattoo, I said I got to know.

All right, here's our last question, Max. And I'm so thankful for your book. I'm so thankful for how pragmatic it is. It's what we need. So 4:13ers, it is a resource. And we're going to tell you how to get it when Max and I are done visiting here.

But this is our last question, Max. All right.

So in your book you write that, "Giant-size challenges are won not with bigger biceps" -- for which I'm very grateful, by the way, that's my aside -- "but with better thought management." So for the one who's been listening and they're like, oh, my goodness, I need this so much, I got to get the book, but I can't get it quick enough, or I can't wait to read these Show Notes, but I can't get to it quick enough, would you just leave that listener with the most important thing that she can do, when this podcast ends, to start this process.

Max Lucado: Well, go back to the Romans 12:2 promise, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind." So think about the first part of that command. It's a bit of a correctional part of the command. Don't be conformed. In what way are you letting the world conform you? Do you need to turn the news off? Do you need to read different books? Are certain friends having an influence on you? How are you being conformed?

Acknowledge that and turn away from that and be transformed. Transformed, changed, changed by the renewal of your mind. So invite the Holy Spirit to do the work the Holy Spirit wants to do, and that is to begin changing your mind little by little, day by day, into the person that God aspires for you to be.

Jennifer Rothschild: Simply put, don't be conformed. Be transformed. So consider if you are conforming. And if so, like, turn off the news. Turn down the volume of everything in your life. Be mindful of how much time you spend on your phone. Turn away from those things so that you can turn to truth and be transformed, and watch how your mind will be renewed.

KC Wright: Yes. And invite the precious Holy Spirit to do his work. Change your mind day by day. You can become the person God intended for you to be one thought at a time.

Of course, this reminds me of JR's book "Me, Myself & Lies." It has personally helped me in my life. I've purchased so many copies for friends and family The book is phenomenal, the Bible study is phenomenal. And we will have a link to Jennifer's resources also, along with Max's, at the Show Notes today at 413podcast.com/380.

And hint, hint, Christmas cometh, and that book will fit in your stocking. I'm just saying. You know, it's the gift that's going to keep on giving.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, so true.

KC Wright: All right, our dear friends, we love you, and we mean it. And we hope and pray that you are enjoying all things Christmas. Remember, you can tame your thoughts. Well, you can't, but Christ can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Isn't that the truth?

KC Wright: That's why we always remind you that you can do all things through Christ who gives you supernatural strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and KC: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Aren't you thankful, KC?

KC Wright: So thankful.