4:13 Podcast: Can I Really Make a Difference? With Governor John Kasich [Episode 374]

John Kasich: There's just two important things, and that is -- the two most important commandments are love God, which brings about humility, I hope, and the other one is treat somebody else the way you want them to treat you. That's what it is. And then faith itself -- as I've explored this over the years, my friends, who are these really learned people in faith, said to me that God makes the first move. And I think that's right. So the question is, when God makes the first move, how do you respond?

Jennifer Rothschild: Have you ever felt too small to make a difference in all the big problems in our world, or even in your own community? And can we as people of faith really make a difference? Oh, yes, you can. And today Governor John Kasich, he's going to show you how.

You are going to find that the antidote to cynicism and despair is your faith in action. Few people are better qualified, my friends, to tackle this than former Ohio governor and presidential candidate John Kasich. So today on The 4:13, he's going to remind us that our faith and our faith communities can really make a difference. You're going to get practical ideas for making positive change and hope to dream about what is possible, because there is a lot that is possible.

So, KC, buckle up. Let's light up the darkness. Here we go.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, hey, friends. We're glad you're with us today on The 4:13. KC and I are in the closet. Two friends, one topic, and zero stress. And our topic today is so good. But I'm wondering what's your stress level like, KC? How are you? We haven't even talked this morning yet before we went on mic. So give me some updates.

KC Wright: I have zero stress right now.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh, I like.

KC Wright: Zero stress. I am a little wired on the inside.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you came in with an energy drink. But why else are you wired?

KC Wright: Well, I also had an iced coffee this morning, and I'm sipping an energy drink. But you've got a lot of energy too.

Jennifer Rothschild: I do. I don't know what's wrong with me.

KC Wright: Hey, I've got a story for you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, tell me.

KC Wright: Okay. Speaking of faith in action, El, my daughter, 15, wanted a pair of shoes that cost $140.

Jennifer Rothschild: Whoa.

KC Wright: I said no.

Jennifer Rothschild: Correct.

KC Wright: Let's go cheaper. Okay?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right.

KC Wright: Because I got her first day of school shoes, a pair of Adidas, for, you know, 80 bucks. Okay?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. Which is high.

KC Wright: Right, right.

Jennifer Rothschild: I mean, that's a good pair of shoes.

KC Wright: And then her godparents wanted to do something for her, so they got her the expensive shoes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh.

KC Wright: Okay? But on top of coupons and discounts and points, they got those 140's down to 40 something.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's brilliant.

KC Wright: Okay?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: However, while we were out and about, El said everywhere we went shopping, "Oh, I still want a pair of UGGs."

Jennifer Rothschild: Ugh.

KC Wright: Yeah. That's why they have them named UGGs.

Jennifer Rothschild: I do not like them. Sorry. I don't want to offend anybody, but yeah, I don't love them. Okay, but she wants UGGs.

KC Wright: And I said, "Well, El, you know what? You can believe God for them. Troy, Lisa, your godparents, and Daddy have done enough."

Well, behold, the shoe anointing must have fell on a couple of amazing friends in our church, right? A couple Sundays ago, they randomly send me a $100-plus gift card for Journeys so El can get any shoe she wanted for her birthday.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.

KC Wright: So El is getting her UGGs.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.

KC Wright: And so I'm just -- I'm using my faith to grow a church. My girl over here using her faith for shoes. Okay? So anyway, I just wanted to share that chuckle of faith in action. And I do believe that she gets this shoe obsession from her Aunt J.R.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, yeah.

KC Wright: Yes. But it was so awesome to see God give her the desires of her heart, even something as small as shoes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I got to be honest. I think that's really sweet too. And when you're a 15-year-old girl, shoes are like a big deal. But when you're not a 15-year-old girl, shoes are always a big deal. Because, listen, your size of your pants may change, but your shoes size doesn't. So I just, like, love that.

But you know what it's also such a picture of, KC, is just people in the body of Christ, in the community of faith, caring for each other.

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And that's so precious. In fact, I think you had a quote there --

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- from John Kasich about caring.

KC Wright: Yeah, let me read a quote from his book. "If we care for one another, if we love one another, if we look to live a life bigger than ourselves, there's a way to do that through our institutions of faith." And he went on to say, "And if it works out that we have an idea for how to make the world a better place, there's a way to put that idea into practice through these institutions as well." Good stuff.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right? And so -- I mean, the shoe example is tiny on the big scale of eternity, but, I mean, your school -- your school -- your church does that with feeding the hungry, and lots of us who are listening are involved in communities of faith where we're active. And so that's what John Kasich is going to talk about today. And it's super inspiring and very interesting.

And at one point, it was so funny -- you're going to hear this -- I asked him a question, and he goes, "I don't agree with that question," or something like that. So it'll be fun for you to hear him disagree with me. I loved it.

All right, let's introduce him. As if he needs it.

KC Wright: John Kasich is a national leader who has spent a lifetime bringing people together to solve big problems and leave the world around them just a little bit better than they found it. He served as the 69th governor of Ohio and ran for president during the 2016 GOP primary. His message focused on unifying Americans rather than dividing them, championing the great potential of our citizens to make positive impacts in their own communities.

Today he runs the Kasich Company and serves as a political analyst for NBC, CNBC, and MSNBC. He's the author of four New York Times bestsellers, and today he and Jennifer are talking about his most recent book titled "Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future."

Jennifer Rothschild: All right. I've been very excited and slightly nervous to have you on here, Governor.

John Kasich: Come on. What are you talking about, nervous? What's wrong with you?

Jennifer Rothschild: Because you I have followed. Okay? I'm a political junkie to an extent, and I have followed your career.

John Kasich: I'm sorry.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, right?

John Kasich: I'm sorry.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm trying to recover. But -- with your presidential run, with all the things. Okay. But I do want to tell you, without making you feel awkward, that I have appreciated your steadfast character over the years in every role that you have filled. And so that is meaningful to me just as an American.

But I also want to tell you as a believer in Christ, I've loved how you're very comfortable and you're not shy about your faith. And so since our audience is mostly Christ followers, I would just love if you'd start off taking us into that part of your story, your faith story.

John Kasich: Well, Jennifer, when I was a little boy, I was involved pretty much in the church, Catholic Church. I was an altar boy and I was a commentator and all that kind of stuff. And then I went to college, of course, and I became very much a wayward son. I think I knew the Lord well back as a kid, but, you know, I go to college and all of a sudden he's a rabbit's foot, you know, if I needed something. And then I get elected to the legislature, I'm in Congress, you know, and I'm just kind of buzzing along, everything's going fine.

And then one day in 1987 I get a call that my father had been killed and my mother was dying and would die. They were killed by a drunk driver. I went there, and a young minister, who my mother always talked about, asked me where I was on my faith, and I could not, Jennifer, answer the question very well. He said you have a window of opportunity to go through that window to find out where you are vis a vis the Lord.

And that was in 1987, and I've been on the other side of that window since then, still trying to figure everything out. And he brought a lot of people around me, and it allowed me to really kind of understand him and understand myself better. And so, you know, that's kind of what's happened with me.

And, you know, it's something that I really -- I'm just drawn to. I have some great friends who are wonderful theologians, and, you know, it's just great. I have great conversations with them, we -- it's a wonderful thing.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is.

John Kasich: I'm just happy about it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and it shows, and it has changed everything that you have done on the other side of that window. And I love the fact that you said you're still kind of always learning and growing and figuring it out, because that's part of the journey of faith. So thank you for sharing that. And I appreciate how it has impacted how you have served and what you've written.

So I want us to turn to your latest book, "Heaven Help Us." Okay. But I want us to kind of acknowledge the elephant in the room, or on the podcast, because I think lots of people are kind of skeptical about the church and faith communities and wonder, okay, can the church, can faith communities really have a positive impact when our climate, at least in the U.S., is so polarized. Because people can often see faith as divisive instead of unifying. So speak to that.

John Kasich: Yeah. You know, first of all, I guess there's just two important things, and that is -- the two most important commandments are love God, which brings about humility, I hope, and the other one is treat somebody else the way you want them to treat you. That's what it is. And then faith itself -- as I've explored this over the years, my friends, who are these really learned people in faith, said to me that God makes the first move. And I think that's right.

So the question is when God makes the first move, how do you respond? If you get something that happens to you -- and I'll give you a very practical real story right now.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Love it.

John Kasich: There's a young guy who is a great golfer. He's been on the Korn Ferry Tour, which is one of the best ones. He's 28 years old and he's been struggling. He lost his card, and he's playing on mini tours, and this is hard. And I was on the first hole with him, had only met him a couple hours earlier, and I went over to him and I said, "Hey, Bryce, do you have any personal faith?" And my wife is like, "You met this guy, like, two hours ago when you're badgering him about this?" I said, "Well, sweetie..."

So he looks at me, he says, ah, you know, blah, blah, blah. He sounded like me when my preacher friend asked me that question in '87. And I said, "Well" -- he goes, "Well, I don't kind of go to church that often." I said, "Wait a minute, wait a minute. This has nothing to do with going to church. It has nothing to do with crossing yourself, it has nothing to do with mumbling a bunch of prayers or whatever."

I said, "What this is all about is building a relationship. It's building a relationship with the Almighty. He's made you, he loves you, he's for you, he's on your side, he's on your team, and that's all you need to do. Like you and I have a relationship here? Well, you can have a relationship with him. You can tell him what's on your mind, he can give you direction. At the end, through thick and thin, he'll be for you."

And he looks at me and he goes, "No one has ever said anything like that to me before."

So guess what? He lives in Pinehurst, North Carolina, and I have a friend who lives down there who actually knows him --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, wow.

John Kasich: -- and he now -- he now is gathering around this guy and sending him daily things, and hopefully, you know, he won't drift away and he'll respond. And so that's kind of the way I look at it. I think it's cool, I think it's fun, and, you know, we'll see what happens.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

John Kasich: And then we -- you know, you and I, or anybody else listening -- I mean, maybe -- and this is going to sound arrogant. But I called one of my friends who -- he actually runs my Bible study here, and I said, "Well, when God is going to talk to you, I mean, can he talk to you through somebody else?" And I told him the story of this golfer. And he said, "Oh, for sure."

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

John Kasich: "For sure." So I think with all of us, if we care about somebody else, we can talk to them in a way that's not heavy handed or preachy or whatever and say, "Hey, here's kind of the way I look at it, and you ought to think about it."

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it. You know why I love it too, because you're just speaking of -- I asked you a question that you could have answered about institutions, but instead you took it down to the individual, because that's where the power is. It's in each of us. And when we walk in the light of Christ, then we have light to give to others. So I love that story.

John Kasich: Well, this conversation, and many that I have now around this book, makes me very nervous, Jennifer, because I'm, you know, a hypocrite and a fraud. And that used to bother me a lot because, you know, I talk a better game than I do.

But, you know, one of my friends said to me, well, there is -- you can have, in a golf term, a mulligan, you know. It's called repentance.

Jennifer Rothschild: There you go.

John Kasich: And I guess that's right. But, you know, look, I don't know what to tell you. I'm just trying to do the best I can, but I just fail, you know. I fail --

Jennifer Rothschild: Don't we all.

John Kasich: Like, I was at this thing -- my wife asked me to go to this dinner on human trafficking which she was very involved with. And this guy walks up to me, and I'm sitting there and he's like, "Where do I know you from?" I said, "How can I tell you where you know me from?" And then he's like, "Well, did you work at Morgan Stanley?" "No, I didn't." And he goes, "Well, what's your name?" And I looked at him and I said, "Well, what, are you from ICE here?" And then he walks away. And my wife was like, "Come on, John." So I then had to go find and say, hey, you know, this is who I am.

Jennifer Rothschild: Sorry.

John Kasich: But, I mean, I could have been nice from the beginning. But I'm more kind than I am nice.

Jennifer Rothschild: And you know what? The kindness is the deeper virtue anyway. But here's the thing. I appreciate you sharing that, because we're all in process. And those of us who say we're never hypocritical or we're never frauds are probably the most fraudulent and hypocritical among us. So I think living honestly, it shows more who God is. Because we all need him, and that's kind of what you're sharing.

And one of the things that I know with people of faith is we walk through this life and we see the injustice, we see the things that are messed up, and we want to make a difference. Okay? And often we think, well, the only way to really do that is to shape public policy, but I'm just Joe Normal and I have no power and I can't do that.

So I would be curious from your perspective, how can an individual and a faith community begin to really influence and shape just the texture of our nation, maybe the public policy? And then, like, are there any areas in particular that the church could step into to help maximize the church's impact?

John Kasich: Well, I mean, I don't kind of like that because I don't really think that we need to be worrying so much about -- well, I should say -- it's a good question. Here's what I guess I'm saying.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, tell me.

John Kasich: My book --

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm okay if you don't like it.

John Kasich: My book lays out how people can solve problems that they see in their life, or they have a burning passion to do something good, and then they can visit an institution, a church, a synagogue, or a mosque, and there they can hopefully find material support, psychological support, strength in numbers, and get something done. That's what almost all the people in this book have done. They just took their ideas, their vision, to an institution to somehow do good.

Now, when you talk about influencing public policy, that's like -- you know, I kind of don't like that idea because I don't go to church to try to figure out what my position is on some issue in Washington.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's great.

John Kasich: I don't like that idea. I like the idea of -- it's sort of like people say, "Well, how did your faith help you to be in office?" Well, it just informs me, but it doesn't -- I don't go and look up Isaiah 16:23 to figure out what I'm going to decide on something. So we have to be very careful about getting church involved.

Now, that doesn't mean -- if you take Martin Luther King, I mean, it was the churches that brought about civil rights, so I don't want to dismiss that. But you have to be very careful about what you're going to choose. I mean, it would be really good, for example, if all the faith institutions started to say, I don't care who we want to blame, I don't care about the issue. Can we just feed people in Gaza?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

John Kasich: You know, can we work to end human trafficking?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

John Kasich: But those are sort big titled issues, as opposed to what we're going to do on some bill moving -- you see what I'm saying?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, 100%.

John Kasich: I hope I'm being clear.

Jennifer Rothschild: You are being very clear. And I appreciate it because I think that the church -- like, when I go on a Sunday morning, I do not expect to hear how I should vote or impact public policy. I go to worship Christ and to be with fellow believers and to love other people. But --

John Kasich: Yeah, I want to go to understand that Joseph, who was obviously kind of a snitch and arrogant early on and got sold, and then the next thing you know, he's over in Egypt and, you know, he's in this prison after he gets wrongly accused. And then one thing leads to another, and the next thing you know, the guy's running, you know, Egypt, and then his brothers come to him. You never know what God has in mind. That's what I want to hear. And let that translate into my life and what that means.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's good.

John Kasich: I think the biblical principles take care of the rest of it.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's good. All right, that's a great clarification, and I really appreciate it. And I think a lot of us need to hear that. I needed to hear that. We all need to hear that.

John Kasich: Well, Jennifer, I believe for our country to be vastly improved, instead of being polarized and hateful in so many different ways, I do think it's going to take a spiritual awakening in some way. And we saw that after the Gilded Age when we saw the Social Gospel Movement that did bring a lot of social change to our country, you know, rights for women and the way we treat minors and all that kind of stuff. That was really important. I think we're going to need some of that here.

And what does look like? I don't know. I mean, is it done through us? I don't know what the Lord's got up his sleeve. But we need something like that because just digging out of this ourselves, I don't see how it's going to happen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, it's not working at this point. And, you know, I think -- I'm very mindful of, you know, social media and people who are very passionate about the right things, but they might go about expressing their passion in wrong ways, and I just don't think we're going to get to heaven someday and God is going to say, "Oh, well done, you good and faithful servant. Way to prove everyone wrong on Facebook," you know. I want to hear him say, "Way to love them like I have loved you." And, oh, man, Governor, he loves us with grace and forgiveness, and more grace and more forgiveness, and so that's --

John Kasich: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- that's how I want to be. That's how I want to be.

John Kasich: Yeah. I mean, let's just take care of our own knitting where we live and build things from the bottom up, and that way we'll begin to -- that's what the book is about, how people can forget all this political stuff, which gets us all grounded down, and start doing things to solve problems based on the passion that we have in our heart.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Because God's put passion in all of our hearts.

John Kasich: Correct.

Jennifer Rothschild: And, in fact, let's go back to your book. Your title, "Heaven Help Us," I think it's real interesting that that phrase, like, it expresses a desperation, heaven help us, and hope, like that there is help from heaven. So I'd just love for you to unpack that just a little bit. Talk about that.

John Kasich: Well, mine was, you know, the hopeful part of it. I didn't see the -- I never thought of the negative thing. And it just came to me. Zondervan -- which has been great -- wanted to put something in there about building the nation, and I'm like, nope, we're not doing that. Nope, we are not doing that. I don't want anything to do with politics in here, because this takes care of itself.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Well -- and so that leads me to this. I'm curious -- because there are so many stories in your book, was there one in particular -- which I know that could be very hard to choose. But was there one that really stuck with you that you see as making a real difference? And I'd love to know what you might have gleaned from that, what you could, you know, just inspire us with.

John Kasich: Well, let me just say this. I have two daughters. You don't think I'm going to say which one I like better than the other one.

Jennifer Rothschild: And yours are twins too, aren't they?

John Kasich: Yes, they are. No, no, no. Sorry, I'm not -- no. But, I mean, they all have their -- they all have great significance. I mean, the guy that had a dream, who was in a synagogue, who, you know, 15 years later has got a church, a synagogue, and a mosque on the same parcel in Omaha, Nebraska, is cool. My friend Hal Donaldson, who's now feeding 640,000 children around the world, it's just incredible.

Jennifer Rothschild: Convoy of Hope. That's Convoy of Hope, yeah.

John Kasich: Convoy of Hope is ama -- I've been there.

Jennifer Rothschild: Same.

John Kasich: It is amazing. Have you been there?

Jennifer Rothschild: In fact -- you're going to laugh -- but I'm also a speaker, and I spoke there last week. And I think I was more inspired by them than I could have ever inspired them. Incredible what they do. Logistically, heart. Brilliant. Yeah.

John Kasich: Everything is excellent.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm, it is. Which is how we should be.

John Kasich: I'll be darned. So you got to see Hal and his family?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

John Kasich: I was just there about a month ago. I was blown away.

Jennifer Rothschild: Same.

John Kasich: Blown away.

Jennifer Rothschild: Just their warehouse -- well, in fact, my listeners, I will make sure I put a link to the Convoy of Hope also, along with the Governor's book, so that you can check out Convoy of Hope. But it is definitely worthy to donate to and to participate with their disaster relief and all the other things they do.

John Kasich: Yeah. I mean, there's just -- you know, I think the thing is, though, when I talk about Hal, it always bothers me because people say, "I can't feed 640,000 people every day." No, you don't. But you could feed one.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

John Kasich: Or you could visit a lonely lady that lives down the street or, you know, you can be kind to some child and help them learn to read. I mean, there's a zillion things that we can do. And everybody's made differently and everybody has different gifts, so just use them.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, use them. Boy, that is the best thing.

Okay. I think that could have been the end of our conversation, but I'm going to ask you one more question --

John Kasich: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- see if you can improve upon this. This will be our last question. I would love it if you could give us some very practical ways that we can each support and even, like, celebrate the contribution of our churches and faith communities and how we can support those efforts.

John Kasich: Well, I think it's to tell people the Good News about what those institutions -- look, everything is person to person.

I started a Bible study in 1987. We meet every other Monday, and we have -- what is that? That's almost 40 years. I just called a guy just before we did this show. And I like the guy a lot, and his wife teaches in a Christian school, but I don't know what he's doing in that regard. I just invited him to join the Bible study. We don't want it to be real big, but I thought he would be a great addition. And one of the young men that's in it with me, works with me every day, he's going to talk to the guy, and he's going to say, "Don't join because John Kasich asked you, join because you might want to do it."

And so I think it's just -- look, it's like I was talking to that golfer. If the Lord is using you to talk to somebody else about him, just do it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Just tell the Good News. Be person to person. So if the Lord leads you to talk about him, just do it. Those were his words.

KC Wright: This whole entire conversation gave me hope again for our nation.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right?

KC Wright: It's a one-on-one thing, one heart at a time, one act of kindness at a time. And it was so refreshing.

So now, our people, you know you need to keep the inspiration going by reading his book. And as always, we're giving one away on Jennifer's Instagram. Simply go to @jennrothschild on the Gram. Okay? Or you can get there through the Show Notes. It's real simple. Go to 413podcast.com/374. And, of course, you can also read the transcript there just for you.

But I want to read one quote from this book, as we wind up, just to encourage you even more. He wrote, "Over the years, I've come to believe that the good works we do in service of our faith, alongside people who join us in service of that faith, can change the world." So let's do it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Let's do it.

KC Wright: Let's lock arms with our people and change the world one heart at a time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

KC Wright: You can make a difference. You can change the world. You can because -- you know why? You can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can. And you can.

KC Wright: You can.

Jennifer Rothschild: And we all can one heart at a time, KC.

KC Wright: Our little church just had an event called Bless Fest. So from 9:00 AM till 2:00 PM, people just pulled up and we gave it all away.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

KC Wright: Food, hygiene products, shoes. Amazing. I will never forget this one lady coming up to me saying, "Why are y'all doing this?" And I said, "To love people." You know, we make it so difficult. God made it so easy. Love God, love people. And she just began to weep. And I said, "Here, take this salsa and get out of here." No.