4:13 Podcast: Can I Use Biblical Self-Talk to Talk to Myself? With Jon Gauger

Jon Gauger: You gotta identify that lie. Call it for what it is. It's a lie. You're never gonna get over this. You're never gonna get beyond this. You're not gonna get out of this hole. Speak truth to the lie, that is, a verse of Scripture against that lie, and ask God to change your thoughts.

Eventually this becomes a little bit more natural. Aha, I see what this is. I know what's going on. This is my old enemy, self-condemnation. It's rearing its ugly head. Well, Romans 8:1 says, "There is, therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Jennifer Rothschild: We talk to ourselves every single day, though not always with kindness or truth. And even if we can't turn off our constant internal chatter, we can change how we talk in a way that honors God, cultivates positive thoughts, and brings real life change.

Well, today author and radio host Jon Gauger offers uplifting ways to speak biblical truth to your own soul. You are going to learn positive and constructive self-talk that will bring you hope, calmness, courage, patience, and all sorts of good stuff that your soul needs. So listen up, here we go.

KC Wright: Welcome, welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because that you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey friends, Jennifer here. My goal is to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living the "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. It's me and KC Wright here, two friends, one topic -- one of my favorite topics today -- and zero stress. We love this topic of speaking truth to ourselves, don't we, KC?

KC Wright: Oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm telling you.

KC Wright: I know someone who wrote a great book about self-talk.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, now you know two people, because Jon Gauger did also.

Seriously, we cannot get enough of this topic. In fact, this conversation with Jon, you're gonna love it. I loved it. Number one, I love him. He's a very engaging, funny, fun guy, brilliant guy. In fact, we'll have links, by the way, to his website, to his resources, but also even to the Moody Radio Show where he hosts, because he's a great radio host.

All right. But I was thinking about this this morning, this concept of speaking truth to our soul. And Jon hones in on the psalms, using the psalms to speak truth to ourselves. Okay. So I'll never forget -- oh gosh, this was years ago. I was on the treadmill. I hate the tread -- it's not nice to say "hate." My grandmother said, "We don't hate anything." Yes. Well, I really highly dislike the treadmill.

And so I was on the treadmill. I'm sweating, I'm plodding. Half the time, KC, I'd be eating almonds on the treadmill. Like, what in the world, right? Okay. So I am highly disliking this, feeling like it is unproductive and I'm just trudging along, and I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna try to, like, meditate on some Scripture.

So I -- for what -- I went to my Bible app and it was -- oh, gosh, I didn't even look it up this morning, what it was. But it's the Scripture that says, "How lovely are your dwelling places, O Lord of Hosts," right? And so I'm meditating on that, and then it dawns on me, wait a minute. I'm speaking to the Lord, "How lovely are your dwelling places," but I know David, or whoever -- which psalmist wrote that, he was talking about the temple. But, dude, I am the temple.

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so this sweaty, flabby body that was, you know, dreading the treading of the treadmill, it's like, wait a minute, how lovely is this dwelling place.

KC Wright: Come on.

Jennifer Rothschild: Because this is the dwelling place of the Lord.

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I shifted that Scripture and I said it to my soul. And I was like, "Jennifer, you have a lovely dwelling place because the Lord of Hosts is here --

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- inside me, so how lovely is this dwelling place," and it motivated me to keep going.

Okay. It's just a little example of the real life of how the Scripture can speak truth to our own souls when we use it, and that's what Jon Gauger is going to do. So I don't want to take up any more time because we need to get to his great conversation, so introduce him.

KC Wright: Sorry. I absolutely love the line you just dropped.

Jennifer Rothschild: What?

KC Wright: "I'm dreading the treading."

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm dreading the treading.

KC Wright: That's a t-shirt.

Jon Gauger is a nationally syndicated radio host and the award-winning narrator of 50 audiobooks. Fifty.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: As a journalist or speaker, Jon has traveled to more than 40 countries. He's an ordained minister. Jon preaches regularly. Also he's a voiceover artist. He's recorded commercials for McDonald's, AT&T, Allstate, Kraft Cheese, and the Billy Graham Association.

He has written "If I Could Do It All Over Again" and "Kids Say the Wildest Things." [Transcriber's Note: The correct title is "Kids Say the Wisest Things] Jon is married to Diana, the wittiest girl he's ever met, and the couple has two grown children and six grandbabies --

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh, yeah.

KC Wright: -- whose adorable faces occupy most of the memory on their phones.

You will love this fun and insightful conversation with Jon and Jennifer, so here we go.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, my friends. I already told you that I've been with Jon before. So, Jon, I'm telling you, this is so fun to have the mic flipped, because usually you interview me, and now I get to interview you. Or shall I just say we get to have a conversation that I guide? I love that. I'm so glad you're with me.

Jon Gauger: I am excited too. But I confess, I'm a little nervous. I'm feeling on the hot seat today, Jennifer, so we'll see what happens.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right? It's easier to be on the asking side. But listen, I have no doubt, because you have written a book and the topic is so close to my heart. Okay. Your book is called "Powerful Self-Talk From the Psalms." So I want us to start with, like, a really clear definition. What is self-talk? And is it something that only a few people do, or do we all do it? So, like, let's start there. Define self-talk.

Jon Gauger: Oh, that's a great way to start. Self-talk is this mental faucet that you can't shut off. It's the stream of thoughts, the nonstop monolog that runs in your brain every waking minute of your life. Self-talk is -- it's the stuff we tell ourselves without even thinking about it, right?

Now, Jennifer, the existence of self-talk is not wrong. Let's set that out. It's not wrong. But the content of our self-talk, that can be, in a hurry. Self-talk can be harsh on the one hand or prideful on the other. And neither extreme is biblical, which is a problem we got to address. In short, I would say there's about 1,001 ways that we can allow our self-talk to go wrong. And speaking for myself, I often do.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, in fact, that's what I was going to ask you. Because I think that most of us who write books, most authors write books that we need to read. So let's talk about you. Like, why did you choose to write about self-talk? Though it is a compelling topic in and of itself, and though there is Scriptural remedy for it, I want to know why Jon had to research and write self-talk. Are you good at this or did you need help?

Jon Gauger: Oh, very bad at this. Really needed help. And I didn't know how badly. You know, I think it goes all the way back to when I was a 15-year-old boy. I had surgery for scoliosis, curvature of the spine. And I'd never darkened the door of a hospital before then. And you are surgically straightened out with the equivalent of a car jack. You gain two inches on the operating table. That's the one nice plus.

But you're on this circular frame bed, Jennifer, for two weeks. You don't get out of that bed, you're on that bed, and every four hours it rotates. You go from your stomach to your back. And that's so you don't develop sores and so on. The problem is -- you're trying to allow this incision to heal.

The problem is -- get this -- the electric motor in that handy-dandy circular bed conked out, and so it required a fair amount of muscle to manually crank it, even though I'm not a big guy. Well, the nurses were reluctant to do that at 3:00 AM, and so you had to hit the button and hit the button again.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

Jon Gauger: So that's its own journey. You say, what has this got to do with Scripture? Well, the last night in that bed, I was getting ready for casting day. You're supposed to get all excited because you're going to get out of that bed The price tag though, Jennifer, is you're in a body cast for seven stinking months, from your waist up to your neck. All right.

So you're thinking about this body cast, are you going to be able to handle that? And now your incision is finally really healing, just the timing on it is uncanny and it's starting to itch. It's two foot long from your waist to your neck. It's itching like crazy.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jon Gauger: And so I start scratching. And, of course, that makes it itch more. You scratch a little more, you scratch a little more. The nurse finally walks in and says, "Stop it. Stop scratching it. We're not gonna be able to cast you tomorrow." Well, I was about going nuts. And the only thing, Jennifer, I could do to find any sanity -- and I mean sanity in that moment -- was to quote Scripture, verses I'd learned as a kid.

I was quoting those verses. And I'm ashamed to admit it, but that was the first time, Jennifer, that I really knew I needed Scripture. I needed to hear it, needed to quote it. That was sort of the beginning.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So that's interesting to me, Jon, too, because -- I don't want us to all gloss over. You were a 15-year-old boy.

Jon Gauger: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: I mean, those are like giant puppies, you know? I mean, you're barely developed, you know? And when I think about that, I think about -- because I'm a mom of boys -- them at 15. What you went through is traumatic and long, and there are many remedies we would reach for. But the fact that finally at the end of it, you were just like, there's nothing else.

So I'm curious how that Scripture -- because that's what you did -- in this book, that's what you talk about, is how Scripture's become your self-talk.

Jon Gauger: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: So how that Scripture even then -- it didn't -- let's just be honest. It didn't alleviate pain, it didn't alleviate the itch.

Jon Gauger: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: But what did it do for your soul that helped manage those things?

Jon Gauger: It gave me a perspective, it gave me sanity, it gave me hope, it gave me assurance. It was a medication of sorts. And I want to caution, we don't read Scripture to medicate.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Jon Gauger: But it did offer that. It helped me just get through, and that planted a seed that never went away.

And then fast forward, you know, more recently -- I say recently. Twenty years ago.

Jennifer Rothschild: When you're old, everything's recent, Jon. But go ahead.

Jon Gauger: You know, I've been doing this walk from our radio studios at Moody Radio in downtown Chicago to the train station, back and forth, back and forth every day. It's a mile and a half each way, Jennifer. And that's a lot of time to think. It's a lot of time to think wrong thoughts. And, you know, at the end of the day -- you know, I wake up out of bed, I don't need any Red Bull. I am Red Bull. I mean, I'm --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. You're naturally caffeinated?

Jon Gauger: I am. Forget that -- you know, people ask, you know. No, I don't need it. No, thank you. But by the end of the day, I'm wearing down. And what does our mind do when we're tired, Jennifer? It goes in the wrong directions.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jon Gauger: And so I'm thinking wrong things, thinking things that are critical, thinking things that are whiny, thinking things that are just not pleasing to Jesus. And I thought, I wonder -- I wonder if I could replace that by memorizing some Scripture. And so I started.

All of that, by the way -- second quick story. I was in Angola, Africa, with Moody Radio Pastor Donald Cole. And I had special clothing for the mosquitoes and special medication. You had to be on this prescription thing for malaria. And we got to Angola, Africa, and, Jennifer, my luggage never arrived.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ah.

Jon Gauger: Not one special shirt, not one drop of DEET spray, not one malaria pill. I'm out there just raw. And, of course, my Bible didn't make it either. And when I'm laying there in bed, you know, what are you going to do for your devotional time? And again, I'm quoting Scripture, quoting Scripture, quoting Scripture.

And I thought, wow, I wished I'd memorized more. I wish I'd memorized longer passages. And what happens if I never get to that point, Jennifer, where I have a Bible? And so all of that really, it was a match to gasoline and I started memorizing when I got back home.

And then I started with the psalms, and then it was like, wow, you know, you can't help but memorize something, Jennifer, without also meditating on it, chewing on it. That's the magic. That's the wonder. That's when Scripture gets ahold of you. And when you make the commitment to reach for it instead of that natural thought of reaching for anxiety or guilt or self-condemnation. It's the idea of learning to switch gears.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Well, that's -- you and I are tracking, dude, because that's what I was about to ask you. Because you talk about in your book this skill -- and it's interesting you call it a skill -- of switching gears mentally.

Jon Gauger: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So you just kind of alluded to it. Unpack that for us, because I think we all need this skill.

Jon Gauger: It is a skill we need, Jennifer. And I'm not saying I'm the Jedi Knight. I'm still a learner. But I can tell you it's this. It's when a situation comes along -- here's a perfect example, if I could...

I am working on a video project. Got a lot of time invested in it, a lot of audio files, shots and so on. It's all on an external drive. And I'm going to edit it, and all of a sudden the computer says, I don't recognize that hard drive.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ugh.

Jon Gauger: You got hours here, let alone footage that you can't replace, and I'm like, oh my goodness. And so here's my instinct. Oh, wow. Oh! I want to curl up in a fetal position, I want to whine like a baby. I want to cry, I want to scream, I want to be angry. I want to do something.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jon Gauger: But because I've been on this path with the psalms, Jennifer, what comes to mind? Psalm 16:8, "I have set the Lord before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken." Ah. That's a whole different way of living than just following through on the natural inclination.

So to answer your question specifically, this idea of shifting gears means we stop. Just stop when the threat comes, when the disaster happens, when the bomb goes off, when the insult is shouted, when that nasty bill arrives.

You gotta identify that lie. Call it for what it is. It's a lie. You're never gonna get over this, you're never gonna get beyond this. You're not gonna get out of this whole. Speak truth to the lie, that is, a verse of Scripture against that lie, and ask God to change your thoughts.

Eventually this becomes a little bit more natural. Aha, I see what this is. I know what's going on. This is my old enemy, self-condemnation. It's rearing its ugly head. Well, Romans 8:1 says, "There is, therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Jennifer Rothschild: I love this. And, you know, Jon, you just said that that natural response comes up. Because I was -- I've been with someone recently, and this human -- I'm not even going to identify gender -- but this human would catastrophize. So if something went wrong, it was the worst thing ever that had ever happened in the history of man.

And I kept trying to speak just consolation. "It'll be okay. It's gonna be okay. Let's give it a little time," whatever. Consolation. And finally, this human got upset with me and said, basically in so many words, "Stop being so positive. You think everything's going to be okay."

And I did not handle it well and I just said, "Well, would you rather me say you're right, everything's going to be awful?" And then I -- that was it, you know. And that person did not laugh and -- I didn't handle it well.

But the point is, that human did not have the capacity to shift gears because that person had not trained themselves --

Jon Gauger: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- to shift gears, because it was natural for that human to just see the catastrophe. So I think what I'm hearing you say is there is a natural inclination we all have to shame, to guilt, to condemnation, whatever it might be, but there's a supernatural remedy of speaking truth.

Jon Gauger: Boy, you said that so well, a supernatural remedy of speaking truth.

Another story. And this is the one that literally launched the book...

I'm flying from Chicago to Colorado Springs to interview a very famous author. I've got my audio gear, my recorder, my headphone, the microphone, the big pop-up screen, everything, along with my trusty iPad which I use as a laptop. Waiting two hours for that plane ride, flying a couple hours in the air, I've written some freelance work, I've worked on a book chapter, I've worked on a sermon. I get off the plane, I rearrange the contents of my backpack, head off, meet the guy. We get ready to do the interview, I pull out all my gear and I realize, Jennifer, no iPad.

Jennifer Rothschild: No. Oh, gosh. I feel that for you deeply.

Jon Gauger: Ooh. Now, again, a lot of people go, "Your iPad, yeah, I use that for, you know, checking the email and surfing the web." No, that is my life.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I get it.

Jon Gauger: And I was petrified and I was just again going into fetal position, moaning and groaning.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Catastrophe.

Jon Gauger: Yeah, exactly. But 72 hours later, I had preached at our church, where I sometimes fill in the pulpit, Psalm 25:15, "My eyes are continually toward the Lord, for he will rescue my feet from the net."

So here's what I did, Jennifer. I said, I know what this is. This is a crisis. This is switching gears we're practicing. Lord, I sure would love that iPad back, but -- but what I want more than anything is to get through this day with my eyes continually toward you. I need you to rescue my feet from the net of self-condemnation, of worry and anxiety. Just take it. I need you to rescue my feet from the net.

Well, we went through the day, we did our recording and so on. And do you know that by suppertime -- we're out to dinner -- we get a call from the airport and they said, "Hey, we got your iPad if you want to get it."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh.

Jon Gauger: And it is a lovely ending to the story. But honestly and truly, I swear to you, Jennifer, that's not the big bow on the package. The real gift of that day was knowing for real, for certain, forever I can trust Scripture and it really can dig me out of these pits. My eyes are continually toward the Lord, for he will rescue my feet from the net. And he did, and he does.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. That's the win, not getting the iPad back. That's the win.

Jon Gauger: Right, right, right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, that's the win.

All right, so you've already quoted a couple of psalms, because obviously you base your book on the self-talk in the psalms, so you've already given us a couple. But I'm wondering, is there one particular psalm that you speak to your own soul more than any other?

But I'm also mindful -- and I don't know how this would weave in, Jon, but I read something about an experience you had with your mother, perhaps at the end of her life. So give us an idea of the psalms that have been the most meaningful to you or that you speak the most frequently to your soul.

Jon Gauger: You know, Psalm 34 is one I quote every Wednesday morning. I'm a big bad baby, Jennifer, when it comes to fasting.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, me too.

Jon Gauger: I love my food. So I try, though, on Wednesday mornings, skip breakfast, and I try to pray for half an hour or so, and I don't touch a thing until lunch. Not one bite. That for me is a big deal. It just shows you how wimpy I am.

But I like to start that prayer time with Psalm 34. "I will bless the Lord at all times. His praise shall continually be in my mouth." There's so much to it. "My soul will make its boast in the Lord. The humble will hear it and rejoice. Oh, magnify the Lord with me and let us exalt his name together."

And I love this next one. "I sought the Lord and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears." It's a magnificent psalm. I've worked on the whole thing. And I encourage anybody who would love it to check out Psalm 34. It just never ever gets old. It's a great one.

You asked about my mom.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jon Gauger: So there we were. Mom had been going downhill in a hurry. She was out at the camper, you know, one weekend, and it wasn't -- you know, she was just getting kind of old and her health was failing. On a Tuesday, she falls at home in the bathroom and hits her head and they take her to the hospital. And by Wednesday, she's got sepsis. Thursday, it's just not looking good at all. And Friday she was no longer responsive.

And I remember quoting Psalm 91 to her as she was in that intensive care room not responding. I said, "Mom, I don't know if you could hear, but I just quoted Psalm 91. 'He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.'" I quoted the whole psalm to her, I kissed her, I told her I loved her, and early that morning I get a text from my brother, who was in the hospital as a nurse himself, saying, "Guys, there's no easy way to say this. Mom's gone." But there was great comfort in knowing that we'd shared that psalm with her.

But there's a second psalm that goes with it. That night, prearranged, we had a couple grandkids with us staying at the camper, and we just had them with us anyway. And I sleep in the little pull-out bed with one of the kids. Lucy at the time is maybe four, three. And in the middle of the night I feel this little hand on my face, just gently stroking. I'm like, wow, what a kindness.

And I thought of Psalm 27:8. It says, "When you said, 'Seek my face,' my heart said, 'I shall seek your face, Lord.'" See, God wants to seek -- he wants us to seek his face, not as a threat, but so that he can put his hand on it, so he can touch you, comfort you.

You know, when you go back to your dating days, Jennifer, if you were out with your man on that first date and you're getting to know each other and you're finding out, you know, what his family background is, if he'd have reached over and touched your face, that would have been really out of line, wouldn't it?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. Yeah, that wouldn't have gone over well.

Jon Gauger: There's something intimate about the face, either gazing steadily into somebody else's face or touching their face. I love to touch my wife's face. I really do. It's intimate. And, you know, "When you said, 'Seek my face,' my heart said to you, 'I shall seek your face, Lord.'"

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, beautiful.

Jon Gauger: So that kind of came alive there.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'll never think of that psalm again, and I think that is something we need to let resonate in our souls because that's an intimate moment-by-moment invitation for us every day.

And, you know, as I'm listening to you, Jon, I love how these psalms have come life in your life. Well, of course, they would, because God's Word is alive and it brings us life.

Jon Gauger: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I noticed several you have quoted are from David, because a lot of the psalms are written by David. And in your book, you say that -- you talk about how David is a man after God's own heart. And you say that the fact that he has so much self-talk might be part of the reason that he's a man after God's own heart. Elaborate on that. What do you mean by that?

Jon Gauger: Well, in the psalms, David shows us over and over again proof that he believes God's Word, that he obeys God's Word, that he trusts in God's deliverance. You say, oh, that's nice. But it goes further.

David often makes -- get this -- the most powerful faith statements in the middle of a crisis. This is what I -- 'cause that's where we are. So before he finds the answer, before he gets delivered, before the threat is removed. Some examples, while David is being hunted by Saul's men, he wrote in Psalm 59:16-17, "But I shall sing of your strength and I shall joyfully sing of your lovingkindness in the morning." I mean, he's praising God for rescue before it happened. That blows me away.

While hiding in a cave and feeling trapped, David cries out in Psalm 142:5, "You are my refuge, my portion in the land of the living." He acknowledged God as his only support when no human help was visible. So I see David's life as kind of an open textbook on what it means to stop treating God like Sunday school religion and start living in the trust lane.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh. Yeah. And, you know, when you think about it, Jon, God is our father. We don't want a transactional relationship with our earthly dads. Let's suppose we have just a wonderful earthly dad. He wants for us to live in the trust lane, you know, our earthly dad does, not just-- that's just a beautiful -- that's beautiful. Of course David's a man after God's own heart if that's the case. That's beautiful.

So as I listen, though, I'm also mindful -- okay, so I love all this. I want all this, right? But what's at risk? Like, what happens if we don't learn to apply this biblical self-talk?

Jon Gauger: Good question. Well, it's not a pretty picture, Jennifer. Worry gets bigger, peace gets smaller, our faith shrinks, bitterness and cynicism win the day. See, it gets so practical. We just treat the Bible like it's this nice little book for the extra spiritual. No. It's our survival guide.

Our lives, if we don't learn this biblical self-talk, are lived for things that are not biblical, in ways that are not biblical, and we end up lacking the resources we need for the battles we face. The indestructible, incomparable Word of God. That's what happens if we don't learn biblical self-talk.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh. Self-sabotage right there. I mean --

Jon Gauger: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so you've written this book based on biblical self-talk from the psalms, and it is a rich resource. And by the way, 4:13ers, we will have this available -- I'm going to connect you with it at the end of our conversation.

But in your book, you actually write that this book, your book, the book that you wrote, it is not a one-and-done magic wand we can use.

Jon Gauger: No. No.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right? So tell us why that's not the case.

Jon Gauger: Because we have problems that come at us day after day. I love somebody's quote. The reason we're told to pray without ceasing is because we have an enemy who comes without ceasing. We have temptation without ceasing, doubts without ceasing. This is a learned skill. Learning takes time. Learning takes practice. Learning takes a commitment over a long haul. You know, very little worth having is learned quickly, right? It takes time, and lots of it. It takes effort, and lots of it.

So there is no wand. There is no fast track to learning biblical self-talk. There's none. But there is a direct track, and it starts the moment you choose to memorize and ponder Scripture for yourself. Nobody can do it for you, only you can do it. No pastor, no sermon, no book. You gotta choose to memorize and ponder Scripture.

But here's the thing. Here's the thing. You go, "Ah, my brain just doesn't work very good. I don't memorize." Well, you know, my brain doesn't work so great either. But there are immediate benefits to memorizing and calling to mind even one verse, one phrase of Scripture. Immediate benefit, immediate payoff the day you start. That's my guarantee.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, so this is going to be our last question then, Jon, because I have been inspired as you have quoted these Scriptures. And, yeah, you're right, we all think we can't do this, but clearly we can because we can do all that God has called us to do.

All right, so this is our last question. You got someone listening and they're like, okay, I want to be able to do this, and my issue -- oh, let's say this person's issue is anxiety or fear and -- because they kind of play nice together. Anxiety and fear go together well.

So let's say that's their big struggle and they want to memorize a verse. Like, is there a verse you would suggest? And then also, just in general terms, end us with this: how do we start with Scripture memory? Because it sounds so lofty. How do we start so we can begin this biblical self-talk?

Jon Gauger: We start by choosing a verse or passage that we really go, wow, I need this. I wish I could memorize this. Something that you've read in Scripture that resonates with you, your need, your worry, your care. You know, we can't just sort of vaguely go out there. The Bible's a big book, 66 books. No. Choose something that really hits home and hits hard and then start there. I have a personal method, Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. What is it?

Jon Gauger: I don't really use an app, though I have one. I mainly use -- and this is for sighted people -- a card. It's a card that fits in a man's shirt pocket.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ah, smart. Like an index card. Yeah.

Jon Gauger: Yeah. And I print it out on a photo of something I took with my camera, 'cause I want it to be beautiful. And I have it there. It's laminated. This way I can take it in the snow, in the rain, in the mud. I can drop it on the streets of Chicago and it comes up great. But I have that card. I don't use the app so much because, A, I want my iPhone to count my steps. And when I'm holding my hand and I'm memorizing on my walk, it ain't.

The other reason is if I use a phone app, what am I going to do? I'm going to immediately go, oh, there's a text, oh, there's --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah. Distraction.

Jon Gauger: No phone zone.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jon Gauger: So throw the phone away. I like the old analog card. It's laminated. I make four copies of it. One's in my brief -- or my backpack, one's at the camper, one's on my desk at home, one's -- you know, and I walk with it. I carry it. Everywhere I go, I have this thing. In down moments, I memorize. I don't beat myself up, Jennifer, because I'm not fast. I'm slow. I'm slow. I promise every listener to 4:13, I'm slow. But God isn't handing out prizes for first place.

So start with a verse that hits you where you are, that meets your need. Start today. Print it out, have four or five copies laying around everywhere, on your fridge, in your purse, wherever you are, and let that -- and you'll be amazed. Once you start practicing, once you start seeing a little bit of that seep in, you'll go, I guess my brain didn't die, and you'll go for more, I promise.

KC Wright: Yep, if you're hearing this, your brain is not dead. You can still memorize. Don't beat yourself up. Just pick up a card and write one verse on it that hits you where you are. You heard what Jon did. He prints out four copies, and when he has a down moment, he reads, meditates, and memorizes.

And he's provided you with a free resource you can print to get you started. Okay? It's all on the Show Notes now at 413podcast.com/406. You can download three Scripture cards, and two of them have psalms he has shared today.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's so good.

KC Wright: But even better, get his book. I am going to get his book.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

KC Wright: It can be such an encouragement and companion when you need to get this, you know, biblical self-talk vocab started in our souls.

Also, you need to know about his weekly blog, and it's called The Thursday Thought. It's at ThursdayThought.com. That's ThursdayThought.com. But we'll have that on the Show Notes, too, just for you.

All right, family. You can do this because you know what I'm about to say. You can do all things -- all means all, even in the Greek -- through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and KC: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, don't forget, go to the Show Notes, because -- isn't that awesome, KC, that he's providing this resource for you? So, yeah, go download it. Go check him out. He's awesome.

KC Wright: Yeah. I'm trying to memorize personally the Ephesian prayers right now.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good for you.

KC Wright: In Ephesians Chapter 1, Ephesians Chapter 3, I'm trying to memorize them. And I put a challenge out to some youth I know --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah?

KC Wright: -- that if they memorize Psalms 91, I'll give them $100.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.

KC Wright: Because God rewards those who diligently seek him.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, he does.