4:13 Podcast: Spill the Beans LIVE with Margaret Feinberg at Fresh Grounded Faith Bloomington, IL [Episode 357]

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, this is Jennifer. I want you to meet somebody. She's my precious girl that I sponsor through Compassion International. She's a little girl from Ecuador who has no dad, but she has a Heavenly Father who is meeting her every need.

If you're like me, you can feel overwhelmed with all the needs of the world. Covid-19 has affected all of us, but it has devastated those who already live in poverty. You know, we can't do everything, but we can do one thing, and that's what Compassion International allows us to do. It's a one-on-one relationship with a child who needs you, and it releases children from poverty in Jesus' name.

So go to 413podcast.com/Compassion to meet my precious girl from Ecuador. And while you're there, I invite you, I challenge you, and I encourage you to sponsor a child along with me. That's 413podcast.com/Compassion. And now it's for some practical encouragement and some biblical wisdom on The 4:13.

We are spilling the beans today, and you are about to learn so much. I did. We are talking about how to handle stress, how to move on when you lose somebody that you dearly love, how to know when and if it's okay to step away from a ministry, how to practice defiant joy, and -- fun fact -- how Phil and I met.

And you're also going to hear how Michael O'Brien, who was the former lead singer of NewSong, like, why his identity may have taken a hit when he left the band NewSong. And lastly -- this is going to be the funnest -- you are going to find out what happened when Margaret Feinberg showed up to a speaking event without her pants. Yes, her pants. You don't want to miss this. You're going to love it, so let's go.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, hey, friends. Happy July. Happy July 4th actually. I'm Jennifer, and that was KC Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. And we have one goal, and it's to help you, along with us, live this "I Can" life, to be who God has created us to be, to do what he's called us to do all through the strength that he gives us for his glory for the good of all those around us.

So we're so glad you're with us today. And I got to say, I'm happy you've joined us for this conversation. It is funny, and it's deep, and it's interesting. And, yeah, probably the best part will be what happened when Margaret Feinberg -- who is an author, by the way, who's going to be on the podcast in a couple weeks, KC. She has a new book on the Holy Spirit. Oh, my gosh.

KC Wright: Ooo.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is so good, y'all. So stay tuned. In a couple weeks we're going to have Margaret by herself. But anyway, on this one she's going to talk about something far less spiritual, when she forgot her pants at a speaking engagement.

KC Wright: That's a big deal.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's a very big deal. It could ruin your ministry.

Anyway, I don't know if y'all -- if you're listening in the United States, you might be doing something fun this weekend for July 4th. I'm all ready to go. I have the one thing I need, KC. Do you know what the one thing I need is for July 4th? Besides coffee.

KC Wright: I have a holy hunch.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, what? Oh, okay.

KC Wright: Go ahead and tell them.

Jennifer Rothschild: My fan. My battery-powered fan. But, no. I have two of them.

KC Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I have my venti fan, which I've talked about before on the podcast. And I'll have a link to it. But it's this little cool thing that literally -- it will do up to 40 hours.

KC Wright: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's got an adjustable arm. I can sit it on the ground in front of me and it'll blow on my face. But then I also have this little neck fan that looks like a pair of old-fashioned headphones and it's blowing right on my face. Y'all, I am the happiest when I am the coolest.

KC Wright: God bless America.

Jennifer Rothschild: God bless America.

Anyway, I'll have links to them on the Show Notes, because women always ask me -- not as many men -- but many women ask me, "Where'd you get that fan? Where'd you get that fan?" Girls, we do not like to be hot, do we? I mean -- yes, we are hot. But we don't want to be sweaty hot. Okay.

KC Wright: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: We want to be hot because we are beautiful women.

All right. Anyway, Happy 4th of July if you're in the U.S. And we're so glad we get to celebrate. We're grateful for our freedoms. So let's start this celebration by just kicking back and joining this conversation at Fresh Grounded Faith.

KC Wright: Yes. This Fresh Grounded Faith was in Bloomington, Indiana, with Michael O'Brien and Margaret Feinberg. We will have links to both these amazing people on the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/357, because you will want their books and music after hearing this incredible insight.

So I know I say this all the time, but I'm going to say it yet again. These Spill the Beans, they are my favorite podcast. They are my favorite episodes. I listen to them over and over again. So pull up a chair, there's room at the table just for you.

Michael O'Brien: This is for you, Jennifer. "Where did you get those amazing boots" and -- only at a women's conference -- and, "How do you do your hair and makeup? Because, girl, you are so cute."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, thank you, Michael. So there were several questions about my makeup and my boots. These are from Target, my people. Target. Yes. That means they're not that expensive. So next year when they're absolutely hideous, I won't care. I can get rid of them. I did have to walk through, like, a field of sequins to get here, though, it feels like, they're just so sparkly.

But I also was asked several times about the skin tightener. Just so you all know, I'm not neglecting answering that. I'm going to send you an email at the end of the week that will have a link to it. It's by Peter Thomas Roth. And I will send you an email, so you don't even need to worry about that yet. So I hear you, my people.

But then also the makeup. Do it all by counting. Like, I learned when I was 15 how to put on my makeup by counting. And I knew, you know, like, how many brush strokes to do on my cheek, et cetera. And the same works for mascara and lips and all of that. And I've had to accommodate it differently for aging and style changes.

And I will say this, now it's getting a little rough where -- like, things are changing, and so -- like, one of those is mascara. So my lashes are so much thinner, and I don't know where they've gone until I'm putting on foundation and I feel them right there on... [touches chin]

But when I'm on stage, I do wear false eyelashes. And I must give major shoutouts to my stud husband who learned how to put false eyelashes, so he does this for me.

Michael O'Brien: Very interesting.

All right. "Jennifer, Margaret, what is the best way to handle stress and worry? How to move on after losing a loved one?"

Margaret Feinberg: I'll take the stress and worry. I'll let you take the losing a loved one.

Stress and worry. I've become more aware about how God has designed our bodies. And we need to surround ourselves with things that are comforting physically before we get to the spiritual. That may mean having a cozy blanket. It may mean having a place where you don't allow the -- just one chair in your room. None of the worries are allowed to come in.

You can't make lists, you can just sit and be at peace. I think about music that can be played that can, again, pull us out of the reptilian part of our brain, which is stress and worry and anxiety. Pull that back down so we can get better in to using both sides of our brain.

Also tapping on your chest or on your hand for a few minutes can help tremendously. Also counting down from 100.

And so those practical things can help calm your body and your brain down enough so that you can engage in talking to God about what you're feeling, saying those daily declarations. But don't miss that there's a very significant physical component to this.

Jennifer Rothschild: Man, I'm so glad you brought that, because we do often neglect the physical. And we are fearfully, wonderfully made and we do need to do that. That has helped me, by the way. When you said that, I do that. I will rub the top of my hand sometimes just to engage my body and to -- almost like I'm soothing myself. And it helps me calm down and then be able to focus. That's really good.

Michael O'Brien: You're on the losing a loved one.

Jennifer Rothschild: Losing a loved one. You know, it's interesting, the timing of that question. Well, first of all, probably the person who asked it has lost a loved one, and you are feeling that loss daily and it is hard to move on. And so just know that we care about that. I'm sorry. I know that's hard. And grief is this weird thing. It's not got a period at the end of the sentence; it's an ellipsis. And it shows up all the time. It just never ends.

But this morning as we were worshiping -- I lost my dad in 2018. And thankfully that pain has gotten better. But there are times still when it just stabs me like, oh, man, I wish he were still here. He just brought me such comfort and such stability, and I wish he were here for my mom, and I just wish he were still here.

And so this morning as we were worshiping, I literally had this moment where I was like, I'm in this room of women and we are worshiping, but my daddy is at the throne right now and he is worshiping. And I have probably never been closer to my dad than I am when I am worshiping, because he is in the presence of the Lord, fully alive, worshiping. And so when I am in the presence of the Lord here worshiping, it's like we are connected.

So I don't know if that is an encouragement to you. But if the person you lost is a believer in Christ, you just know that when you are worshiping the Father, you're doing the same thing your loved one is doing. You are as close to them during that moment as you were when you were here on earth. And maybe that's just a very small, practical way to move on. But I don't think we ever move away from grief; we just move through it. So this concept of it's time for you to move on, says who? We move through; we don't move on.

Michael O'Brien: That's good. I know my name wasn't on it, but I just want to say one quick thing. Sometimes -- like, my wife fights manic depression, bipolar, and sometimes she can overextend herself, which can cause stress in her life, because there is an expectation on her that even the church can put on you because you're a member of a church. So I think you just have to be very careful about what you allow in and even have those moments as Margaret's talking about. Very good stuff.

I don't know about the tapping of the heart. That's really interesting. I'll have to talk to you about that later.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Michael O'Brien: "How can you tell when God is calling you to step back from serving in a ministry that he called you to serve in the past?"

Margaret Feinberg: Can I go?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I'd love it.

Margaret Feinberg: I think when you've lost your joy, when you don't feel that spark of delight, it's probably time to step back. And I know some of you are in that position right now and you're like, but if I step back, no one else will do this. And that is not true. And you're like, no, I have to be the only one. No. If you step away, eventually someone else will take that spot. And it may not be identical or one like it.

And then what's going to happen is they're going to grow and be able to use their gifts. And you get to take a little while, rest, and then say, "Holy Spirit, what are you calling me to do today?" And then go and follow where the Spirit is leading you next. But staying in a position too long when you're fried or tired, not fruitful.

Jennifer Rothschild: I was going to say a very similar answer. That when your dread of doing the thing outweighs your delight, or at least pragmatism of doing the thing, when there's so much emotion that's toward the dread, it might be time.

And, you know, Margaret, you're right, sometimes we stay because we're like, well, if I don't do it, no one will. Well, technically, yes, because you're still doing something maybe you shouldn't be doing. But if you do step away, then someone else can rise up.

The other thing I have learned -- and I'm not a big gardener, so I am very -- you can correct me later. But I'll still get it wrong next time, so don't waste your breath. My understanding is when you have a tree that is growing, sometimes there's these branches at the bottom that are suckers. And sometimes until you cut off the sucker, the tree is not going to grow to its full potential.

And it's not that -- you know, that word "sucker" in our vernacular sounds like, well, that ministry's not a sucker. It's awesome. It has virtue. Well, sure it does. But if it's not what you're called to do still, it's going to suck all the nutrients out from you being able to grow in other areas. And so it takes humility to step away, and it takes wisdom.

And here's the thing. I tell my kids this, you know, especially as they're getting into careers and stuff. It's like, you can't really make a wrong decision when you're following the Lord. You just go with where you feel like he's leading you. It's not going to be wrong. Even if it may be the wrong timing, he's going to make it right. So rest in it and just trust what he's calling you to do.

Michael O'Brien: That's good. I was going to say also just -- we have seasons in our life, and sometimes we want to hold on when we should be more open hand. Like, what is really -- maybe somebody else could step into that situation that is going to maybe not be as good as you at that moment, but ultimately they're going to get in that role, like Margaret said. I think seasons, open hands always. And I've had to learn that as a musician too.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, this is interesting. This is for me. "Please sing 'Arise, My Love.'"

Jennifer Rothschild: I didn't write that. I just want you to know, I did not write that. Because I love it when he does it.

Michael O'Brien: Sing "Arise, My Love"? Like --

Jennifer Rothschild: Just the chorus. Can you just sing (singing), "Arise, My Love"? Do you know that song?

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know you know that song.

Michael O'Brien: All right, here we go. (Singing) Arise, my love, Arise, my love. The grave no longer has a hold on you. No more death's sting, no more suffering. Arise, Arise, my love."

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Michael O'Brien: All right. So, Jennifer -- back to you, Jennifer. "Did you go through the stages of grief after your diagnosis? If so, how long did it take you to find your way back to God's love and grace? What did this process look like?"

Jennifer Rothschild: I love this question. I think it's so interesting. Did I go through the stages of grief? You know, there's different stages of grief, like anger, denial, acceptance, et cetera, and we're not going to go through all of them. But then I noticed the second part of the question, how long did it take you basically to get back?

So I think one of the things we can keep in mind is that we can experience loss and grief and that doesn't mean we lose intimacy or relationship with God. That can all be done at the same time.

So this process of lamentation, of lamenting, like Psalm 13 -- I would encourage you to read Psalm 13. Because the psalmist is basically expressing fear, concern, worry, feeling abandoned. He's expressing his feelings. And then he's even kind of saying, And here's what I need from you, God. I need you to enlighten my eyes or I'm going to sleep in death. Like, this is rough. But then he gets to the end and he says, "But I will trust in your unfailing love."

So all this is happening at the same time. So we can process our pain in the presence of the Lord. There can always be nearness to the Lord, even when we are experiencing great pain.

So for me, was there that process of those stages because blindness is a loss? Yes, there probably was. And they also probably mirrored my level of emotional and spiritual maturity at the time. So were there times as a teenager when I was just a lot more selfish, self-aware, and for me that I experienced maybe some more anger? Yes.

Michael mentioned seasons. Are there still seasons when I live with just maybe a little more denial, like, okay, if a sighted woman can do it, then I'm blind, I'm going to do it even better? Well, that's kind of a silly denial that I still will sometimes go in and out of.

But has there always been an acceptance on a deeper level because of Christ? Yes. That's because of grace. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think we ebb and flow through these things. I think we need to always be patient with ourselves. I don't think there's ever an arrival until the day we pass from death to life and we see Jesus and we are known -- we know him and we are known just in that fully and complete way.

So I think in the process of it all, we just take our time with just accepting and grieving as we go. But we always end it with praise. I mean, if you look at every lament psalm, they always end with praise --

Michael O'Brien: It's true.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- affirmation of trust and praise.

Michael O'Brien: "Margaret, since writing 'Fight Back With Joy,' what new items have you added to your dream list?"

Margaret Feinberg: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's an older Bible study.

Margaret Feinberg: That's an older Bible study. "Fight Back With Joy" came out probably circa 2014. So I've written "Taste and See: Discovering God Among Butchers, Bakers & Fresh Food Makers," looking at food in the Bible, and it's a great Bible study.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is.

Margaret Feinberg: You can invite everyone and -- "Neighbor, do you want to come and eat and talk about ancient texts?" "Sure." You know, better than the, "Come study Leviticus." And I've written the James and the Revelation and the "More Power to You," so a number of new things.

Jennifer Rothschild: What kind of things -- so was there something in "Fight Back With Joy" that you talked about that brought you joy or that was on your bucket list or --

Margaret Feinberg: That was actually talking about when -- I wrote a whole book on joy and then I was diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer. And that book trashed my life, and it trashed my book. And I so had to look for joy in the midst of just real darkness. And so that's what that book -- it's just a lot of really practical tactics on how to practice a defiant joy.

Jennifer Rothschild: Defiant joy. And you've done it well. Thank you, Lord.

Michael O'Brien: This is for me. "When did you know that it was time to start solo career?" I think it was over a period of time, probably when my wife and I started getting better and I realized that -- didn't you say something about joy? I didn't have any joy anymore when I was with them. I loved them, but I was losing that joy because I knew God was calling me to something else.

Plus, my young boys would always say, "Hey, where's Dad" -- you know, Mom would say, "Where's Daddy?" and they would go, "Daddy's on the bus." I mean, that just -- it just hit me hard. So I was like I got to get -- and that first year I got home, I coached their baseball. I was their head coach. It was really awesome, so...

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I have a quick question about this. So it's interesting to me -- did your identity take a hit?

Michael O'Brien: Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely. And we were singing in front of 25, 30 thousand people a lot of times, and I went from there to, you know, singing in front of 15, 20 people at a Michael O'Brien concert. And you know what? We all have egos as artists, you know, we're always having to die to that stuff.

But I realized that even in those sweet moments of when I was leading worship and those 15 people were singing, I was like, you know what? I don't think I'd rather be anywhere else than right here. I still had peace, even though my pride was being hit at and -- but, I mean, when we're in Christ, we die to ourselves daily anyway.

So it was just a constant lesson even. And then I ended up getting, you know, in front of bigger crowds. But I never ever look at that as, oh, that's -- now I'm successful. Because the numbers game will destroy you. And as an artist, it destroys me, so...

My son laughs at me, because he's got, like, a million followers and they listen to his music. And he's like, "Hey, Dad, how many you have?" I'm like, "Well, you don't need to worry about that right now. That's none of your business." Anyway...

"How did you, Jennifer, and your husband meet?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, how did me and Phil meet? Well, we were at Palm Beach Atlantic University, and I was a freshman and he was a sophomore. And so I met this guy named Tony Moseley, and Tony was this very tall guy from the Cayman Islands. Had this British accent because he had gone to boarding school in England. And so -- he was so eloquent. And he was roommates with Phil Rothschild.

Well, Tony and I started dating. And I liked Tony. I liked him. Great guy. But he could sense that I probably didn't, you know, like him as much as he liked me. And so we were driving from West Palm Beach to Miami -- he was taking me home on a particular Friday -- and so he says, "Jennifer, I've just been curious. I sense that perhaps your affections are not toward me. So who do you like? Curtis?" "No." "Steven?" "No." "Dale?" "No." "Phil Rothschild?" Silence.

So Tony was gracious enough to introduce me to Phil in the cafeteria line a couple of days later when we got back to school. And honestly, at that point I was like, "Tony who?" I had met the guy. I thought he was the most charismatic, cute, fun, smart guy. And so it did take him four years, but he did accept my marriage proposal. Lucky me.

Michael O'Brien: All right, Margaret. "I am my worst enemy. I know that the Lord is with me, but since I keep going back to being fearful, I just feel like he should give up on me. How do I get out of mine and his way?"

Margaret Feinberg: There's a lot in there. I'm feeling that there's some shame about feeling fearful. And there's Christians who will -- and this is all true. Jesus says, "Fear not." There's that every day of the -- you know, 365 in the Bible. It's actually not exactly that number, but we won't go into that.

But I think that there should not be shame for having fear. Fear is a physiological response that -- God has designed your brain to give you fear to protect you. And so there are healthy fears. And so we as a Christian community need to recognize that fear can be very, very healthy.

Now, when it becomes unhealthy is that fear begins paralyzing us from walking in the fullness of our potential and the promises and the purposes of God. And so I think when that starts to get a grip -- I think a couple of things. One is the way that our brains are designed -- sorry I keep going back to this. Fear and love, the transmitters that transmit fear and love cannot do it at the same time. So where there is fear, love is absent; but where is love, fear is absent.

And so taking ten minutes a day, putting together a list of Scriptures about how much God loves you, and again reading those, saying them out loud, can really start to help you feel and experience the love of Christ.

I also -- I believe God gave us imagination. One of the things that I do is I imagine myself with Jesus, like he's here just sitting on a bench, and I just put my little head on his shoulder. And just that sense of he is real and he is here and he loves me, all the sudden the fear just starts to scurry you away.

And I would also encourage you if you haven't, talk to a good counselor who can give you some wisdom and give you some skills and some healthy coping mechanisms to be able to push back the fear. And don't forget to do your daily declarations.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. That's good stuff. And shame off us. Shame off us. Yeah, it's okay to be human. It's okay to be human. And fear is part of being human. That's really good tactics. I love how practical you are with your brain science. Thank you.

Michael O'Brien: "When you struggle with others, how do you" -- this is for everybody -- "how do you voice your hurt and work through that with them and yourself? Hurts happen, so how can we move forward from the brokenness?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, this is hard. How many of you out there don't love confrontation? I don't like it. I would rather carry the hurt and bury the eventual resentment than confront the situation. So I'm going to answer honestly.

When I do, first of all, I pray. I really pray before I talk to somebody about the hurt. But then just in a very practical sense, y'all, when we talk to someone about our own hurt, we do not use "you." "Michael, you," and you and you and you. It would be no -- Jennifer would say, "Michael, I felt when I heard you say." "I feel when."

And so we always use "I" language first because that's just a more respectful way to communicate. It also helps the person you're talking to not be on the defensive immediately. So try to use the "I" language more than the "you" language.

And then here's the thing that's hard. Sometimes it ends well and everybody is mature and spirit filled and you end up singing Kumbaya and hugging. And other times it doesn't. And how do you move on from the brokenness? Well, you move through it. Again, we got to be patient with ourselves to know sometimes it takes a while and we don't get over things, but we get through them.

But I had a situation with a person who I could not confront, who did something very hurtful and wrong and unjust. And I will tell you, it took me forever to forgive her. And you know what really helped me the most? Was finally realizing, oh, I am just as wrong as she is right now by not forgiving her and by harboring resentment.

And when I finally got down on my knees and I was like, "God, please forgive me for my hatred" -- I hated her. I hated her. "Please forgive me. You died for her. Please forgive me," then I was able to move through it. I haven't forgotten it, but I don't hold her accountable for how she hurt me anymore. I don't. I'm good with God about it. So I think sometimes we just have to own our own sin in the situation and trust God with all of the broken parts.

But that's how I deal with it. And like I said, I'm not good at all that. That's just how I'm learning. Those are some things that have worked for me. What about you guys? Are you a confronter?

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, go ahead.

Jennifer Rothschild: Margaret? No.

Michael O'Brien: Two things. Don't text.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's so smart. Do it in person.

Michael O'Brien: If you are going to -- if you can't do it in person, even -- you know, get on a FaceTime or something face to face is probably the best.

Other thing is, once you do that -- and let's say it doesn't end well. Sometimes those relationships don't work out and you can't mend it, so you just have to -- I mean, you think about the Bible. Paul -- there was confrontation and there was a separation. It doesn't mean that they want them to go to hell and they want us to go to hell, it's just we just have to release that relationship, it's just not healthy. But definitely do it in person or over the phone, face to face.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good word. Because we do resort to texting. It's easier.

Michael O'Brien: So we only have really room for one more. So this is -- "what is your most embarrassing moment?" Margaret?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, we got to hear Margaret's.

Margaret Feinberg: Oh, my gosh. Okay. I was at an event -- and we already know I'm a little spacy, right? "Hi, I'm Margaret." And so I forgot to pack pants.

Jennifer Rothschild: Pants?

Margaret Feinberg: Pants. And so it was at a retreat center, and so I quietly asked the organizer -- I was like, "Can I borrow a pair of pants?" Like, I needed jeans or anything other than my sweatpants to wear on stage. And so I thought she would be discreet. And then instead, she got on the radio and says, "Margaret needs a pair of pants, a size blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Can somebody please bring a pair?"

Michael O'Brien: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's awesome. That's just awesome.

Michael O'Brien: That's very touching. That was good.

Okay. So I'm doing a gig at the Rusty Bucket. It's in South Carolina. It's a very small town and there is nobody around. And basically I go get my soundcheck, and the guy gives me a T-shirt that says "Rusty Bucket." And he goes, "Hey, man, would you mind putting that on for the concert?" And I was like, "Sure. Happy to." So nobody was there except me and the sound guy, so I took my T-shirt off, put my shirt on, and then I realized my pants did not match. My wife's always in my head. And so I decided -- my car was parked right in the alley.

And so I had it all I set up, had my pants, the shorts that I was going to put on, and nobody around. And so I opened it up and I'm sitting there. And I pull my pants down, but I do that final look. And I look to my right, and the promoter's wife, daughter, granddaughter. Three generations. And they did the -- you know the back up, I didn't see? And then I had to have lunch with all of them. And the granddaughter never looked at me once. All right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I love that both of your stories are about pants. I know what both of you need for Christmas.

All right. Mine -- you know, I really, really wish I could think of something better than this, but honestly, it's not been worse since the eighth grade. My worst one was in the eighth grade. I had just started shaving my legs. And I have very thick hair, y'all, super thick hair. Which is a blessing up here; not so much on your legs. And so because I had just started shaving, if you know about this, like, if you stop, it comes back thick and coarse and prickly.

Well, we were driving two and a half days to get from Miami, Florida, to Asheville, North Carolina, so I decided not to shave my eighth-grade legs during that trip. And so when we arrived, we got -- we were going to be at this family camp. So my brothers and I go up this mountain to recreation and we meet all of our friends that we're going to spend the week with up in -- dividing us up into teams.

And so as an icebreaker, the game that these, I'm sure, college students who think it's funny decide is we're going to play a game called People Passer, which meant that every team, which had about, you know, 40 students, they would line up face to face, fingertip to fingertip, 20 on each side, and then the person who weighed the least would be chosen to lay on her back and be passed quickly down the row of people. And whoever's person got there first, won. Well, it was me. I was like, 90 pounds.

And so I'm laying down on the first set of hands and we hear the whistle blow, and then all these hands are passing me. Every hand was rubbing my leg. Every voice was saying, "Oh, disgusting. Why don't you shave your legs?" "Ouch. What is that? That hurts." "Oh, shave your legs." It was awful. And then I had to spend the whole week with these people with my hairy legs. That's how I got to know them.

But honestly -- this is an absolute truth -- I do not speak untruth on the stage or off the stage -- and it is this: I literally have not missed a day shaving my legs ever since. I mean, like, you could feel them. You are not welcome to, but you could feel them. There's no hair there, and there never shall be in the name of Jesus.

All right, the beans are officially spilled. Thank these guys.

KC Wright: This is why I love Spill the Beans. And my biggest takeaway, next speaking event, make sure I pack my pants.

Jennifer Rothschild: Do not leave home without your pants.

And by the way, you guys heard Michael O'Brien. He mentioned that his son's music is really doing well. His son's name is Joseph O'Brien. I don't know if he said his name. But we will also have links to Joseph's music because you're going to want to hear his music. And we'll also have links to Joseph's Instagram and his socials, because that way you can follow Joseph and Michael O'Brien will have more to whine about because Joseph will get even more followers.

KC Wright: Oh, yeah. I have a daughter, a teenage daughter, who loves Joseph O'Brien --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

KC Wright: -- let me tell you. Yes.

We will have also the links to Margaret's books and Bible studies, plus Michael's music, plus a full transcript. 413podcast.com/357. So go there, get connected.

All right. Until next week, get with your peeps and spill some beans.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: Because here's truth, we are just better together. You can because you can do all things through Christ who gives you supernatural strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

KC Wright: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: You can. All right, now go get your firecrackers, KC.

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And your corndogs and whatever else you do on 4th of July.

KC Wright: I love America, land that I love.