Spill the Beans LIVE With Liz Curtis Higgs [Episode 148 at Fresh Grounded Faith Bossier City, LA]

GIVEAWAY ALERT: You can win the CD Crown Him Michael O’Brien or the book Embrace Grace by Liz Curtis Higgs. Keep reading to find out how!

Today’s 4:13 Podcast episode is full of Cajun spice because we’re live at Fresh Grounded Faith in Bossier City, Louisiana!

What happens when Liz Curtis Higgs and Michael O’Brien spill the beans with Jennifer? This insightful and fun conversation! [Click to Tweet]

Author Liz Curtis Higgs and musician Michael O’Brien are with me. And, girl, if you don’t already know these friends of mine, you’re going to love them. I promise!

The three of us sat around the onstage bistro and “spilled the beans.” We answered questions from the audience—unplanned and unrehearsed. Here are a few of the topics you’ll hear us tackle:

  • how to forgive yourself
  • what to do when your husband isn’t leading your family well
  • why God allows the enemy to steal, kill, and destroy
  • how does God feel about surrogate pregnancy
You are never alone. Even when you can’t see God, He clearly sees you. [Click to Tweet]

You’ll also hear us share our favorite Bible verses:

I loved this conversation, and you will too! And, as you listen, remember that no matter what you face today, you really can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Related Resources


Fresh Grounded Faith

  • No matter where you find yourself on your faith journey, you’ll feel loved, learn practical truths from Scripture, and laugh out loud at our Fresh Grounded Faith women’s events. If you’re deep in the trenches of life and looking for hope-filled encouragement to ground you, this is the place for you. You can learn more here.

Books & Bible Studies by Jennifer Rothschild

More from Liz Curtis Higgs

More from Michael O’Brien

Links Mentioned in This Episode

Stay Connected

Episode Transcript


4:13 Podcast: Spill the Beans LIVE With Liz Curtis Higgs [Episode 148 at Fresh Grounded Faith Bossier City, LA]

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, today's podcast is full of Cajun spice, because we are live at Fresh Grounded Faith in Bossier City, Louisiana, and author Liz Curtis Higgs and musician Michael O'Brien are with me. We answer questions about, oh, how to forgive yourself -- that's a big one -- what to do if your husband isn't leading your family well, why God allows hard things, and we even got a question about surrogate pregnancy. I'm just saying, you never know what will happen when we spill the beans. So pull up a chair and let's get real with each other and get real hope from God. K.C., pour the coffee, here we come.

K.C. Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ, who strengthens you. Now, welcome my friend shoved here in the closet with me, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. And vaccinated, I might add. So we are safe breathing each other's air. I'm just here to help you be and do what God has called you to do and to help all of us as we live this "I Can" life together of Philippians 4:13. It's just two friends, and it's one topic. And it's usually one topic with zero stress, but today we got several topics, y'all, because we are going live to a Fresh Grounded Faith conference in Bossier City. So I want you to know I have had my chicory coffee and my beignets and this conversation happened. But you may not know what Fresh Grounded Faith is. It's a conference that we do nationally. We call it kingdom minded. It is region-wide. We bring together all the co-host churches, women from all ages and denominations, and it's just a beautiful time to get refreshed and encouraged in the Lord and to make sure that our faith stays fresh and grounded. So if you want to see if one is coming to your area, you can go to freshgroundedfaith.com. I'll have a link to it also on the show notes. And I'm just saying, y'all, this was a full conversation in Bossier City at the bistro table, so I think we need to just hop and skip right to it, get going.

K.C. Wright: Let's do it. You know, these people, but let me refresh your memory about how amazing they both are. Liz Curtis Higgs is the author of 37 books --

Jennifer Rothschild: Thirty-seven.

K.C. Wright: -- with 4.6 million copies in print.

Jennifer Rothschild: 4.6 million.

K.C. Wright: She's one of the funniest women I've ever heard. A gifted storyteller and a wise teacher, she lives in Kentucky with her husband, Bill, and her two tabby cats, Boaz and Samson. Michael O'Brien is probably most known from his seven-year tenure as lead singer of the Christian band NewSong, but he has actually been in the music ministry for over 20 years now --

Jennifer Rothschild: Twenty years.

K.C. Wright: -- and has built quite a reputation as an incredibly gifted singer, songwriter and worship leader. Michael has had several number one hits and has produced nine solo projects, including his most recent, "Crown Him."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, it's so good.

K.C. Wright: He started off in South Florida and now lives on a farm in Tennessee with his beautiful, lovely wife, Heidi. And Michael is holding all the cards and asking all the questions, so let's grab a seat at the bistro table now at Fresh Grounded Faith in Bossier City.

Jennifer Rothschild: We are going to spill some beans. And we got a lot of cards, a lot of questions, and we selected out what we felt like represented the majority of the themes that y'all asked about. So, Michael, let's just spill the beans.

Michael O'Brien: This is to everybody. Since we're talking about ages -- smiley face -- when did you begin your public ministry, and do you ever plan to retire from public ministry?

Liz Curtis Higgs: Well, those are good questions.

Jennifer Rothschild: Those are good. OK. Well, I'll give a little quickie. I began -- well, let me just say this. Ministry is ministry. OK? We in our culture call it public ministry, but ministry is ministry. And the minute we say yes to Jesus, we're saying yes to whatever he's called us to do. So I guess in that way I'd have to be a literalist and say, well, when I was eight years old is when I began my public ministry, because that's when Jesus saved me. But I began to sing in high school. When I first lost my sight, the very first thing I did was begin to play the piano by ear, and God opened those doors. I sang at Kiwanis Clubs and Lions Clubs and churches. Anyway, so the Lord opened doors for me in ministry through music, and then it evolved to teaching and speaking, and so just kind of over the years. Am I going to retire? I don't know. Hoping you have some advice. I don't think -- not intentionally. I'm trusting the Lord with every day. I'm just -- you know, I'm trusting the Lord with every day and planning to do this until he calls me home or tells me to stop. What about you Lizzie?

Liz Curtis Higgs: Yeah. So I met Jesus when I was 27, and my public ministry also began that very day because I've never shut up since.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Really. You know, let the redeemed of the Lord tell their stories is what the Scripture says.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Yeah

Liz Curtis Higgs: So I started sharing my testimony right away, and that led to more doors opening. And, you know, they would say -- churches would say, Come back. I'm like, I just have the one story, you know. But by then I had my face in the Word. I was a single woman at the time. I worked five hours a day, five days a week. Can you imagine a gig like that?

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. In what, radio?

Liz Curtis Higgs: I was in radio. So when I got home to my empty house with my one cat, I just stuck my face in the Bible. And doing that, after a while you got to get it out, you know, you can't just keep pouring in.

Jennifer Rothschild: You can't shut -- mm-hmm.

Liz Curtis Higgs: You can't wait to -- that's right, you couldn't shut me up. So it's been 37 years. And I have no plans to retire, which is really hard for Bill, because that means he can't retire either. We travel together. And so, you know, I just trust God for all of that.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's how I am.

Liz Curtis Higgs: When the phone stops ringing, when -- you know, when it's time to stop, I'll know.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right.

Liz Curtis Higgs: He'll tell me, he'll make it clear. But until then, oh, my goodness, no.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

Liz Curtis Higgs: I think it's Kay Arthur always says there is no retirement in times of battle.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oooo, that's a good word.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Yeah, yeah. So no.

Jennifer Rothschild: What about you, Michael?

Michael O'Brien: 1988, I joined a group called The Heritage Singers, which is where I met my wife. But I've been in full-time ministry since 1994, so at the end of this year will be 25 years.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. That's beautiful.

Michael O'Brien: And I certainly am not going to retire. I have no 401k or anything like that. I am just going to sing. And I'll probably do a lot of senior banquets as I get older. But you know what, I'm so content to do this -- I love it --

Jennifer Rothschild: That's beautiful.

Michael O'Brien: -- as long as the Lord will let me do it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good word.

Michael O'Brien: OK, this is for everybody. I asked a question as a teenager that was never answered. How does God feel about surrogate mothers, when you are perfectly capable of doing it yourself, but you don't want to?

Jennifer Rothschild: I would like to say that out of 10 or 12 years of doing Fresh Grounded Faith, that is the most unusual Spill the Bean question I've ever gotten. It's just -- it's so specific, yet -- I will say this: I'm glad whoever you are asked it, because clearly that's something important to you. And what's important to you is important to us.

Liz Curtis Higgs: And to God.

Jennifer Rothschild: And even more to God. I think when there's specific questions like that that aren't specifically addressed in the Bible, that's when we go to the broader principle and to the character of God to answer it. I'm not going to ever say what God thinks about something that has not been overtly revealed in his Word, but I do know that God's first thought is grace on everything. God thinks Grace because he is love and he is grace. So I don't know really how you answer that with specificity.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Well, the closest example we get in the Bible is Hagar. You know, she was carrying a child that was going to belong to Sarah.

Jennifer Rothschild: True.

Liz Curtis Higgs: And it wasn't, frankly, Hagar's choice to sleep with a man who was so old at the time. Very old. Not her choice, so she was, in essence, a surrogate mom.

Jennifer Rothschild: She was. That's true.

Liz Curtis Higgs: And what we see in Scripture is that God showed up for Hagar. An angel of the Lord. First time we see that phrase in the Bible is in the story of Hagar in the desert. And he promised to be with her always, and he was. And he promised to bless her son. Even though that wasn't how God intended. He wasn't Isaac, he was Ishmael. But, see, it is about grace. And that child was the seed of Abraham. It just landed in different soil than they intended. But still the seed of Abraham. God is faithful to his word and faithful to his promises.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, he is.

Liz Curtis Higgs: And so I would say for the woman who is choosing to do that, she doesn't answer to us, friend, she answers to God.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's exactly right.

Liz Curtis Higgs: She answers to God. But we do see that example in Scripture.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. That's good.

Michael O'Brien: I'm not going to answer that. OK, next question.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, right?

Michael O'Brien: Jennifer, who picks out your clothes and your boots? Do you describe your style and what you prefer? How do you apply your makeup? This lady wants to know a lot of stuff.

Jennifer Rothschild: She does. This lady and I need to go shopping. I have two friends I shop with -- I told you about them last night -- Joan and Paula. They're the fashion posse. And we like to do boutiques when I'm home. We have what's called Fun Friday, and that's where I get my wardrobe, from boutique to boutique we go. And I love cowboy boots. Y'all, summers are difficult for me because I got nowhere to put my stuff. But I wear cowboy boots as much as I can because I just -- they're comfortable and -- but I do describe what I prefer in fashion. And then ultimately Phil's like the fashion patrol. He'll always tell me -- he used to say, when we were first married, "Oh, that doesn't look good on you," or, "That makes you look fat." Bad words. No, he never said that. He'd say, "That doesn't look good on you." Well, it didn't take him long -- because he's very a keen man. He said, "That doesn't do you justice."

Liz Curtis Higgs: That's good.

Jennifer Rothschild: Isn't that smart?

Liz Curtis Higgs: That is good.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. So he's always really sweet about making sure that I look like he thinks I would want to look if I could see, which I really appreciate. Makeup, my mama taught me how to put on my makeup when I was 15. That's when I lost my sight, but -- couldn't see my face, but she taught me how to do it by counting. So I knew how many times, for example, to brush my blush brush on my cheekbone and how many times to do mascara and all of it, you know, just by counting. Works well unless I lose count.

Michael O'Brien: That's good. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that stuff.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, right, Michael?

Liz Curtis Higgs: You have no idea.

Michael O'Brien: So, Liz, this is right to you. How did you find Jesus?

Liz Curtis Higgs: Well, that's easy. He found me. He found me in the bottom of a pit. Like I said, sex, drugs and rock and roll, pot, booze and cocaine and all the foolishness. If there was a road I could go down, down is where I went. Until I was 27, he sent the perfect ambassadors to me, brand-new Christians. Don't you just love them? They're so adorable. They're just like puppies (panting) just waiting for somebody to piddle on. And they -- this darling couple, husband and wife team, at the radio station I worked at, they just loved me, y'all. They didn't judge me, they didn't tell me to clean up my act, though it clearly needed it. They didn't even say, "Liz, you need to know God." They said, "Lizzie, God knows you, God loves you, and God has a plan for you." And the thing is, they didn't just tell me that, they showed me that. They loved me. I was not lovable. I was a mess. I always smelled like booze and pot, and I had a horrible mouth, and there was nothing about me --

Jennifer Rothschild: Can we pause real quick and give them one illustration of that? Didn't you work with Howard Stern?

Liz Curtis Higgs: Yes, I did.

Jennifer Rothschild: And what did he say about you?

Liz Curtis Higgs: Well, we were at the same radio station in Detroit at WWWW -- where even stoned I could remember where I worked -- and Howard did mornings, I did afternoons. And he came down during the lunch hour -- I was at my desk doing a line of coke -- and he said, "Lizzie" -- I'm sorry, it's just -- you know. "Lizzie, you really need to clean up your life." So if Howard Stern is suggesting you ought to clean up your life, it might be time. The sad truth was -- because he was straight. You have to understand. I was the wild woman. He talked a big talk, but he lived a very straight life. Probably still does. But I was the wild woman, and he was legitimately worried about me. The problem was I had not hit bottom yet. I have to put a P.S. on Michael's callout to those of you who are dealing with a prodigal. As hard as this is, you're going to have to let them hit bottom. I hate that. Because you want to save them, you want to reach down before they hit bottom. But unfortunately, if they're really not done yet, they'll crawl right back in. Can I get an amen from somebody who knows that that's true. They'll crawl right back in. And then you're going to put it on yourself. What am I doing wrong? How did I fail this child? Some of us, this is just how we got to know Jesus. It's just the path he had for us. The thing is, we are never alone. I thought I was running away from God. God was in the pit with me. He had his arms around me. I couldn't see him, but he clearly could see me. And when I was done, when I was cooked, when it was over, when I came to the end of myself, when I looked up, guess who's looking at me? This is who God is. He never gives up. So don't give up yourself, friends.

Jennifer Rothschild: Man, that's good.

Liz Curtis Higgs: But also understand it's going to be his work. It's a work of the Holy Spirit. We do not lead anybody to Christ. Christ calls us unto himself, and we just get to be the cheerleaders who see it happen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hallelujah. Amen.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Yeah, yeah. Don't put it on yourself that you've got to do this. God's got this, he does.

Jennifer Rothschild: You be like those Christians that loved you. You just love. Love, love, love.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Just love. Just love. Judge not lest you be judged, and love. Lots of love. And then finally, you know, when I did wake up, I was already singing in the choir.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

Liz Curtis Higgs: I love to sing, they had a robe that fit, what can I say? I came out of the baptistery, went forward, and that was that, girls and boys.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Liz Curtis Higgs: God is so faithful.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, he is.

Liz Curtis Higgs: I remember February 21, 1982, like it was yesterday.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hallelujah.

Liz Curtis Higgs: So good, God is so good. So it was just a work of his Son. It's always the story.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. So grateful to the Lord.

Michael O'Brien: OK, this is to everybody. If Jesus came to redeem a broken world, why is the world still so broken? Why is there so much brokenness even within the church? If the enemy was defeated, why is he still allowed to kill, steal and destroy? How much is God in control?

Jennifer Rothschild: Thank you. Go ahead, Michael.

Michael O'Brien: Oh, thanks, Jennifer. Well, I think he's completely in control.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Completely.

Michael O'Brien: And as a matter of fact, when you read Scripture, it should be more comforting to you because God is sovereign, he's holy, he's just, he's perfect, he's in control. He uses even bad things for his glory, and has for years and years, and will until he comes. So I find when I read it through the filter that I feel like -- not feel. It's everything to do with believing if God truly is spinning this world and doing the things that he's -- see, I don't think this world would even last a second --

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Michael O'Brien: -- without God being in control.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right. There is grace in this place, yeah.

Michael O'Brien: And one last thing I'll say. Because I have been where Liz has been, and that world, when you come out of that, it truly is -- there is a belief level that God completely was in control of it all and that he used it for his glory. And we are to know God and to love him and to serve him, and that that's how -- that's the only place I can go. If I didn't believe that, I'd panic.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Michael O'Brien: I'd be fearful every day.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Right, right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Got anything?

Liz Curtis Higgs: All that. That's it. He is in charge, he is in control. And we find lots of stories in the Bible of people who might have said -- like Joseph at some point -- wow, is God really in charge, because here I am in prison. But at the end of things, what does he say? What you meant for evil, God meant for good. It is not possible for us to see that good right now, because all we can see -- the enemy is very busy. But understand, he's in his death throes. He already knows how this is going to end, so he's making a big stinking mess while he can. But his days are so numbered. They're so numbered. He doesn't win. God does win; therefore, so do we. So do we.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah. One of the things that I -- 'cause I get this question asked in a very different and personal way, if you had enough faith, wouldn't you be healed? Or if God is good, why are you blind? Right? Same question. We phrase it very differently based on our life circumstances. And one of the things that I have learned about the goodness and the grace of God is that in his generosity toward us in allowing us to choose to love him back, that means there was some allowance for sin to enter this world, for us to make bad choices to agree with that sin, and there's always this unintended consequence of sin, suffering, sadness, loss. And does that mean God is not in control? No. It means his control is beyond what we can even perceive. And so I think for those of us -- when I heard that word "broken," I thought that's written by a person either who's really seeking to understand, or it's written by someone who's broken. And for either of those, the answer -- sometimes God doesn't give us all the answers, because he wants to satisfy us with something deeper than the answer, and that's with a relationship with himself. And whether it's an intellectual pursuit or a broken heart, Jesus will be the deepest satisfaction to that. We don't understand. Deuteronomy 29:29 says there are secret things that belong to the Lord. When God could eliminate evil and he chooses not to, why is that? It is an act of his merciful sovereignty in this world in a way that we may not understand.

Michael O'Brien: You guys are good. All right, this is to me. It says, "How can I as a wife help my husband lead our family since he doesn't? I do. Not sure it is right." Well, because I'm married to a very strong woman, who could probably lead better than me -- it's not supposed to be that way. I believe that if you're married to a believer, you never stop praying for your husband, that he would step into that leadership role. I also believe that if you're always just on him all the time and you're not pouring into him positive things -- and I've always told this to ladies who have a tendency to go off on their husbands around me -- I'm like, hey, could you just find one thing that he's doing good and pour into that for a little while. But there is a struggle here. It's the curse.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Michael O'Brien: It happened in Genesis --

Jennifer Rothschild: That's exactly right.

Michael O'Brien: -- when sin came into the world.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Michael O'Brien: And quite honestly, we are really messing this one up in our culture and in our church, and it's -- to me, the only way we're going to get through this, we need men who are going to stand up for the Word of God, who are going to lead their families well, who are going to love their wives as Christ loved the church. When things are working well, when a man is actually -- he fears God and he wants to follow hard after him, all these things fall into place just perfectly, quite honestly.

Jennifer Rothschild: They do.

Michael O'Brien: If a husband truly is -- and this is what I even say to men. And there are a couple of men in this room right now. But I would say your prayers will not be heard if you do not live with your wife in an understanding way. That's how serious this is. God says, I won't even hear your prayer if you're not living with her in an understanding way. And that means you're not trying to be an Archie Bunker. That's an old character from All in the Family. You know, where are my slippers? It is our responsibility, men -- and you don't need to go home, ladies, and say, well, Michael O'Brien told --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Michael O'Brien: You just need to pray for your husband, that he would step into that role. And I do think, you know, if you have kids, you're doing more damage than good if you're trying to take the lead, because there's going to be a lot of things that you're going to regret. And my wife has told me that many a time, that she regrets some of the things that she did. And I allowed her -- because let me tell you, men, when -- we might not think like you ladies do, because y'all -- you think a lot. You have a lot of things going on. Everything is connected to everything. Men, we have our own little -- you know, we have our boxes and we don't -- anyway, all that to say pray for your husband, find something good, pour into that for a little while. And when he does something good, when he's leading well in something, let him know about it --

Jennifer Rothschild: Big time.

Michael O'Brien: -- because that really goes a long way with a man. All right.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's good. Thank you, Michael.

Michael O'Brien: All right. This is for everybody. What is your favorite Scripture?

Jennifer Rothschild: Let me go with mine since I know it right quick. Mine's 2 Corinthians 4:16-18. It says, "Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, inwardly daily we are being renewed, and these light and temporary troubles are working within us a far greater weight of glory. For that which is seen is temporary and that which is unseen is eternal."

Michael O'Brien: That's good.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's so good.

Michael O'Brien: That is good.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Mine would be Romans 5:8, "This is how God demonstrates His love for us: while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Yeah, just that thought that his death occurred even before I knew --

Jennifer Rothschild: He loved us then.

Liz Curtis Higgs: -- I was a sinner.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Wow.

Michael O'Brien: Philippians 2:5-11, "Our attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped; he made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself, became obedient to death, even death on a cross. Therefore, God exalted him to the highest place, gave him the name above every other name, that at the name of Jesus every knee would bow in heaven and on earth, and under the earth, and every tongue would confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God, the Father."

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Yes.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Mmm baby.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hallelujah.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Oh, man.

Jennifer Rothschild: See what I mean? God's Word is alive.

Liz Curtis Higgs: It is alive.

Jennifer Rothschild: Something happens in your spirit when you hear God's Word. Oh, I love it.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Except I just have to say, that was not one verse.

Jennifer Rothschild: No. It was a chapter.

Liz Curtis Higgs: And yours wasn't either.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mine was two verses. Or three. His was a chapter.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Yours was two, his was fifty. And I am good with if the only verse you can remember is, "Jesus wept."

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Because Jesus wept just before he raised Lazarus from the dead. Think about that. He wept. He even knew what was coming, but he still wept because of the brokenness of the people around him who thought that death was the end.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Liz Curtis Higgs: So "Jesus wept" is a good one, girls. If you need a quickie, there you go.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right. That's right.

Michael O'Brien: All right, this is to everybody. "I can't forgive myself for my past. What should I do?"

Jennifer Rothschild: I say Liz, go for it.

Liz Curtis Higgs: Yeah, because I actually wrote a whole book on that. I did. And it's not at the table, so I can mention it and I won't -- I'm not trying to sell anything.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, no, we want you to mention it.

Liz Curtis Higgs: But "Embrace Grace" is about the fact that you cannot actually forgive yourself. You don't have the power to do it. You have to receive the grace that's already been laid out for you, sister. You can't -- you don't have it. You can't forgive sins. Remember when -- Jesus, well, wow, he even has the power to forgive sins. He does; we don't. So what forgiving yourself really means is receiving the grace God has already poured out on you in abundance. Because we don't want to put our own opinion about ourselves above his. It's like, well, I know God has forgiven me, but I can't forgive myself. OK, so your opinion matters more than God's is how that might come off.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Liz Curtis Higgs: And so don't go there. He has forgiven you. It's a fact, you got to stand on it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen. Good word. Good word.

K.C. Wright: And this, my 4:13ers, is why I love Fresh Grounded Faith.

Jennifer Rothschild: Me too.

K.C. Wright: It's real and every part leads you closer to Christ and his Word. I know Jennifer's heart. And if someone attends Fresh Grounded Faith and they say, that conference made me fall more in love with Jesus, somebody shoot the confetti cannon, 'cause that's the win right there.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's the whole purpose. So if you want to find one near you, there will be a link to the Fresh Grounded Faith website at the show notes at 413podcast.com/148. And you can also see a transcript of this conversation there.

K.C. Wright: Hold on. Breaking news. This just in now. Now, don't miss this. Liz and Michael want to give you something. OK? Go to Jennifer's Insta profile @jenrothchild to get entered to win, get this, Michael's "Crown Him" CD and Liz's "Embrace Grace" book. Someone's going to win. Might as well be you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

K.C. Wright: And if it's easier, just go to the show notes now at 413podcast/148. That's 413podcast.com/148 to get connected to Jennifer's Instagram so you can enter to win these great resources.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

K.C. Wright: OK, our peoples, we love you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

K.C. Wright: Find somebody to spill the beans with this week, because we need each other and we are stronger and better together.

Jennifer Rothschild: It Is so true. And remember that wherever you are, however you feel, whatever you face, you can do all things through Christ, who gives you strength. I can.

K.C. Wright: I can.

Jennifer Rothschild and K.C. Wright: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Some of those questions. I mean, they're just fascinating. So, K.C., we've got this little -- oh, they're cards, they have all these random questions in for conversation starters. Have you ever done anything like that?

K.C. Wright: Only here with you.

Jennifer Rothschild: OK. So one of them I got recently, "What was your favorite song in the eighth grade?" And I couldn't remember.

K.C. Wright: Well, yeah, that's --

Jennifer Rothschild: Do you remember what your favorite song was?

K.C. Wright: That's going back a ways.

Jennifer Rothschild: I think mine was probably by Air Supply. I showed my age.


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