It’s that time again! We’re spilling the beans in Houston, Texas with Grammy award-winning singer-songwriter Laura Story and former lead singer of Newsong, Michael O’Brien. This Q&A time at any Fresh Grounded Faith event is unscripted, unrehearsed, and unlike anything you’ll experience at other women’s conferences!
Today, we’re talking about if it’s okay to not be joyful during trials, what it means to fear the Lord but not be fearful of Him, and how to forgive someone but not allow them to hurt you in the future.
Plus, Laura shares how her husband didn’t remember they were married after his surgery. True story! And Michael reveals what was happening behind the scenes of his marriage while he was touring with the band.
And then, Michael gives us a spontaneous performance of “Arise My Love,” and all I can say is wow, wow, wow!
It’s great conversation, powerful music, and a whole lot of fun! So let’s go spill some beans!
Laura Story is a songwriter, worship leader, author and all-around multifaceted girl next door. Her Grammy, Billboard and Dove award-winning songs include Blessings and Chris Tomlin’s Indescribable and have brought hope to millions around the world. Laura and her husband, Martin, and their four kids live in Atlanta, Georgia.
Michael O’Brien spent years as the lead singer for Newsong and has been an important part of Fresh Grounded Faith events for over a decade. He’s had several number one hits and has produced six CDs including his most recent project release, Crown Him. He lives with his wife, Heidi, on a farm with their fainting goats in Nashville, Tennessee.
[Listen to the podcast using the player above, or read the transcript below. Then check out the links below for more helpful resources.]
Links Mentioned in This Episode
- Fresh Grounded Faith Event Schedule
- Jennifer’s TACH Luggage
- Visit the TACH Luggage website
- Peter Thomas Roth | Instant FIRMx Temporary Face Tightener
- Peter Thomas Roth | Instant FIRMx Temporary Eye Tightener
More from Laura Story
- Can I Live My Life With Open Hands? With Laura Story [Episode 18]
- Can I Give Up My Plan for God’s Plan? With Laura Story [Episode 45]
- Visit Laura’s website
- When God Doesn’t Fix It Bible Study Guide: Learning to Walk in God’s Plans Instead of Our Own
- So Long, Normal: Living and Loving the Free Fall of Faith
- Blessings CD
- Follow Laura on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
More from Michael O’Brien
Other Spill the Beans Episodes
- With Margaret Feinberg and Kelly Minter at Fresh Grounded Faith Springfield, MO [Episode 245]
- With Angela Thomas Pharr and Meredith Andrews at FGF Hattiesburg, MS [Episode 232]
- With Kelly Minter and Meredith Andrews at FGF Little Rock, AR [Episode 214]
- With Lisa Whelchel and Michael O’Brien at FGF St. Louis, MO [Episode 189]
- With Jo Dee Messina and Nicole C. Mullen at FGF Springfield, MO [Episode 186]
- With Tammy Trent and Liz Curtis Higgs at FGF Chattanooga, TN [Episode 180]
- With Ann Voskamp and Laura Story at Fresh Grounded Faith Buffalo, NY [Episode 118]
- With Laura Story and Karen Abercrombie at Fresh Grounded Faith West Michigan [Episode 80]
- Don’t miss an episode! Subscribe to the 4:13 Podcast here.
- Were you encouraged by this podcast? Reviews help the 4:13 Podcast reach more women with the “I can” message. Click here to leave a review on iTunes.
4:13 Podcast: Spill the Beans LIVE with Laura Story and Michael O'Brien at Fresh Grounded Faith Houston, TX [Episode 252]
Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, 4:13ers! This is Jennifer Rothschild, and I just have a question... Do you need luggage? Because if you need luggage, I have the luggage you need. I have used it for years, and I affectionately call it my hugging luggage. It is actually called TACH, as in attached, T-A-C-H. TACH is a small business, smart concept, and great product. The luggage is designed with these innovative velcro wings that extend from either side of one piece of luggage and will attach or wrap around the sides of the piece of luggage that you place in front. And so what happens is that they attach and they move as one unit, smooth and easy to maneuver. I travel between 30 and 40 times a year and TACH is always with me. I love it! They come in a light version. They come in a hard shell version also. Either one is excellent! So since I love TACH, I thought you might love it too. So, go to 413podcast.com/tach, which is T-A-C-H, to check it out. And now, the podcast...
Well, 4:13ers, it is that time again. We are spilling the beans in Houston, Texas, with Grammy Award winning singer and songwriter Laura Story. She gets really honest about her husband's brain tumor, dealing with fear and forgiveness. And she even got former Newsong lead singer, Michael O'Brien, up on the stage for a spontaneous performance of "Arise My Love." These women in Houston asked so many good questions. They asked about what it means to fear the Lord, how to memorize scripture, and what kind of -- wait for it -- skin tightener I use. And those were just a few of the questions. You don't want to miss these sizzling hot beans we are spilling today.
So, K.C., for the java, here we come.
K.C. Wright: Let's go. Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you and I up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.
Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.
Jennifer Rothschild: Hello, our people. We're super glad you're here. Happy Summer. Hope things are going well for you on this sunny day. I hope it's a sunny day. I'm Jennifer, here just to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you live the "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. That was K.C. Wright, my seeing eye guy. Two friends, one topic, zero stress here in the podcast closet today.
K.C. Wright: Woo-hoo!
Jennifer Rothschild: But I got to tell you -- well, I mentioned it already at the top of this podcast. We're going to Houston together -- I hope you're packed -- and we are going to a Fresh Grounded Faith event and we're going to pop in on the Spill the Beans. But I wanted you guys to hear something before you hear Spill the Beans. Okay, because this is just for fun. I just thought it would be a fun taste. Right? This is what happened right before Laura gets off the stage for us to do Spill the Beans. Okay, so let me set the scene.
Michael O'Brien, who used to be the lead singer of Newsong, he had just finished a concert. And, of course, it was phenomenal. All right. Then Laura, she gets up, and she's about to follow him, and she is totally freaking out about how brilliant it was and what she had just experienced. Like, she was beside herself. You're about to hear this. Okay. So she -- Michael sits down. He's worn out, he's just sang a concert. He sits down and she says, "Michael, get back up here because there's one song you didn't sing." So I just thought you'd like to hear what she did.
Laura Story: Sure. Yes.
Michael O'Brien: Piano?
Laura Story: Yes. I don't know, I literally can't even remember what I was supposed to do up here. I'm so blown away by hearing him sing. (applause) Oh, yeah. That was incredible. What I'm about to do is nothing like what just happened, I do know that much. Oh, my gracious. You know what song you didn't sing that I really wanted you to? I'm sure you love when people say that to you. I love you doing "Arise My Love." You wouldn't come up just for one more second, just -- you wouldn't, would you? Come on. Come on.
Michael O'Brien: Just do the chorus? Just the chorus?
Laura Story: Yeah.
Michael O'Brien: Okay. I usually have, like, five other guys singing.
(Singing) Arise, my love. Arise, my love. The grave no longer has a hold on you. No, more death's sting, no more suffering. Arise, arise, my love.
Laura Story: You know, I don't know this for sure, but I think that's actually what was playing when he rose from the grave. At least in my version. When I read it in my Bible, that's what's playing.
Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.
K.C. Wright: Wow.
Jennifer Rothschild: Right?
K.C. Wright: That's amazing.
Jennifer Rothschild: He does have a voice, doesn't he?
K.C. Wright: Yes.
Jennifer Rothschild: And that was spontaneous.
K.C. Wright: And that song.
Jennifer Rothschild: I know. (Singing) Arise, my love.
K.C. Wright: (Singing) Arise.
Jennifer Rothschild: I know. We really shouldn't do that --
K.C. Wright: (Singing) The grave no longer has a hold -- oh, my goodness.
Jennifer Rothschild: -- because we just heard somebody who could sing it well sing it.
K.C. Wright: Yeah, we shouldn't do that.
Jennifer Rothschild: No, we shouldn't do that.
K.C. Wright: That's how I wake Ellie up on school mornings.
Jennifer Rothschild: (Singing) Arise, my love.
Okay. Anyway, there are so much good stuff about to happen with Spill the Beans. Let's just introduce our friends.
K.C. Wright: Let me introduce these two. Michael O'Brien spent years as the lead singer for Newsong and has been an important part of Fresh Grounded Faith now for over a decade.
Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.
K.C. Wright: Michael has had several number one hits, has produced six CDs, including his most recent project release, "Crown Him." He lives with his wife, Heidi, on a farm, with some fainting goats, in Tennessee.
Laura Story is a songwriter, worship leader, author, and all-around God's girl with so many gifts. Her Grammy, Billboard, and Dove Award winning songs include "Blessings" and Chris Tomlin's "Indescribable" and have brought hope to millions around the world, these songs. Laura and her husband, Martin, and their four kids live in Atlanta, Georgia.
Are you ready for this?
Jennifer Rothschild: We are ready.
K.C. Wright: I love this podcast. You're going to love it. Let's Spill the Beans together.
Jennifer Rothschild: All right, let's Spill the Beans.
Michael O'Brien: All right, Jennifer, this is yours. How do you keep your presentation clear in your mind and not lose track?
Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I have to memorize things, of course, but I think very visually. Even though I can't see, I'm a visual thinker, and I am a believer that people remember pictures and stories more than words and data. And so I create pictures in my mind of whatever my message is. That's why -- like this morning I arranged it into four scenes, so literally in my mind I'm flipping scenes in my mind, and I'm seeing pictures, and I'm knowing which verses I associate with each picture. So that's kind of how I keep it in my mind, I do pictures. And then I try to animate anything I can that's inanimate. So I will do that in my mind.
I create what I -- I call it my speaking ladder. Like, my first point will be the first rung, the second point will be the second rung, the third, the third. By the way, nobody needs more than three steps on their ladder when they're speaking. Just too much information. But anyway, on each rung of the ladder, I will literally -- like, I will see myself writing the Scripture reference in cursive. I'll do whatever I can to just make things memorable in my mind. And if you really watch me when I'm speaking, you'll know when I'm getting to a spot where I'm about to transition up the ladder, because I literally usually kind of look up. Like, in my mind's eye, I'm looking to the next thing.
Michael O'Brien: Well, I'm impressed that you remember the word "ladder." That's good.
Okay. So, Laura, how long were you married before the surgery, and did he remember the wedding?
Laura Story: Oh, that's a great question. So we had been married -- we were married about six months before symptoms started, and so by the time Martin had surgery, it was just right -- a little less than two years. And so he had this surgery. The doctors had already warned us that it was possible he would wake up and not remember me at all.
And so when I got to see him that first moment after his surgery, going into the recovery room, I kind of waited for him to open his eyes. Finally, he opens his eyes and looks at me and he says, "Laura Story." I thought, oh, he remembers me. And then he said, "What are you doing here?" And the more we talked, the more I realized that he knew exactly -- he remembered me from high school, but didn't know that we were married.
So you've probably never found yourself in this situation. But if you can just imagine with me how awkward it is. Like, how do I tell him? He's going to notice that I'm not leaving at some point in time. And so finally, I told him, because he kept on saying, "So what have you been up to?" He said, "Did you ever get married?" Anyway, so I finally said, "Yeah, I did get married. I got married to you." And I was trying to think of ways to -- like, I was the one in white at the wedding. I don't know what I said. But I'll never forget his response. He looked at me just, like, with eyes as big as saucers, and said, "We're married?" "Yes."
Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's the best.
Laura Story: I got a feeling like that's the best way that could go down.
Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Oh, man, I think that's so sweet.
Michael O'Brien: I love that story.
Will you speak -- I think this -- man, I'm having a hard time. Will you speak in the joy that God has brought you during times of trials and tribulations.
Jennifer Rothschild: All of us probably.
Laura Story: Yeah.
Jennifer Rothschild: Do you have anything profound to say? Well, I'll tell you something. This probably is not profound, but it'll be honest.
It's funny, as I heard you read that, Michael, I don't always feel the joy during. I guess that's what strikes me about that. If I'm really in a hard spot, I don't feel the joy during. And I think of Jesus in Hebrews 12:1-2. The writers of Hebrews describe Jesus as for the joy that was set before him. And so I think sometimes we as believers, we put a little too much pressure on ourselves. When something hurts, it can hurt, it can be painful, it can stink. You can say it stinks. We don't have to slap a happy Christian bumper sticker on it, but there is a sense of joy that we know we endure because there is joy set before us. Joy comes in the morning, Psalm says. So I guess I don't have a really good example because I can't say I'm one who dances my way through trials.
Laura Story: I think what you're saying is exactly right. It's not just in the Psalms, but we -- I love when Paul is telling us, like, rejoice. He's reminding us that it's not necessarily a feeling we feel as much as it's a choice we make. A lot of us sitting here at this table or out there, you didn't necessarily have a choice about walking through what you're walking through, but we do always have a choice as far as how we walk through what we're walking through.
And what I appreciate especially about Paul is -- he's not writing to the Church of Philippi about joy and peace. He's not, like, writing from the beaches of Aruba. Like, the guy's sitting in a jail cell. And it just kind of makes me lean in a little bit closer, because I want to hear about a joy that I can have even when everything else in life tanks.
Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.
Laura Story: I want to hear about a peace I can have, like Paul had when he wasn't sure when that Roman soldier was going to pull him out and put him on a cross also. So there's a richness to the joy that we have in the Lord that's more than just that feeling that we have every now and then.
Jennifer Rothschild: Right.
Michael O'Brien: Yeah, I'm reminded -- there's an old song back in the old days -- Truth sang it -- it's called "Living Life Upside Down." And Paul talks about how we are to rejoice in hope of the glory of the Lord. And then he says, "And not only that, we rejoice in our sufferings" -- this is so opposite from the world -- "because suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame." The hope of the glory of the Lord. We know that as we're going through these trials and tribulations, whatever comes our way, we know ultimately he's working those things for our good. And it's a lot easier to say it than it is to live it out, but I'm in agreement with both of you here, so...
Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.
Michael O'Brien: Michael -- it's me -- how did your touring with Newsong affect your marriage? Wow. Is somebody reading my mail or something? Wow.
So, you know, I was on the road about 250 days out of a year. We were doing the Winter Jams. At that point, I was the lead singer and the evangelist, so I was sharing my testimony. And we saw a lot of fruit, to be honest with you. I think -- you know, thousands and thousands of kids were coming forward. But I think for me, one of the things, the dangerous things, is that you think that it's you. You think that God needs you to do what you're doing. And I got so comfortable, and then I got so very uncomfortable because I had hidden sin in my life that nobody knew about. I think I talked about it on the KSBJ interview that I did. But I almost lost my marriage. I'm in ministry, you know. I'm supposed to be the guy, you know, that's loving his wife like Christ loved the Church. So I have all these hidden things.
And then finally I -- by the grace of God, he opened my eyes to my sin and I repented. I read the Word a lot. I was under accountability. And if I'm going to boast, I boast in the Lord. He saved my marriage. And now -- you know, what we thought was dead is more alive than it's ever been, and so we give God the glory for it. But it was hard on my marriage, it was hard on my kids. And so you have to weigh those things out. And I look back on it now and I go to God be the glory. Great things he has done. Certainly not me, so...
But that's kind of what -- and Newsong was kind of a family friendly group. In other words, it was -- you know, we're trying to cater to the family and not be gone as much. There are a lot of other artists who are on the road a lot longer than we were. But anyway, there's that story.
Jennifer Rothschild: Well, Michael, every time I hear you mention any part of that season of your life, I am always struck by and grateful for just your honesty and your humility. I really am, because it means a lot to us to know. Because like Laura suggested, sometimes we think the person on stage is perfect. And it just means a lot to know that your humility was what God's grace used to save your marriage.
Michael O'Brien: Well, thank you.
Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. I admire you.
Michael O'Brien: All right. Well, this is like a -- going from that to this. What product do you use to tighten your skin?
Jennifer Rothschild: Way to bring it back to the shallow end.
Laura Story: Let's do it.
Jennifer Rothschild: All right. And by the way, it only lasts about four hours, so I usually start to sag by the end of a conference. I'm nice and tight when we start.
Okay, it is a product by David Thomas Roth. Okay, I always remember that -- because wasn't David Lee Roth, like, in Van Halen?
Michael O'Brien: Yeah.
Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So I remember David Thomas Roth. And it's called "Firming" or "Stand Firm" or "Firming Cream," or something like that. Anyway, they make two. They make one for your chin and one for your eyes. Of course, I use both.
Laura Story: I'm so confused about this. And we can talk offline. How does it do it?
Jennifer Rothschild: I don't know.
Laura Story: Does it hurt?
Jennifer Rothschild: No, it doesn't hurt. But you know what? I've heard that Preparation H does the same thing --
Michael O'Brien: Oh, my gosh.
Jennifer Rothschild: -- for a lot cheaper.
Laura Story: And you heard it first here, ladies.
Michael O'Brien: Oh, my gosh.
Jennifer Rothschild: On your face. I mean on your face.
Michael O'Brien: Oh, my gosh. What is going on?
Jennifer Rothschild: Next.
Michael O'Brien: Wow. I'm telling you, the questions are so perfect. So the next one is -- it's to me. It says go to my favorite Bible verse.
Jennifer Rothschild: What's your favorite go-to verse?
Michael O'Brien: Can we all do this? Does it have to just be me?
I love Philippians 2 where it says, "Our attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but he made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death -- even death on a cross! Therefore God exulted him to the highest place and gave him the name above every other name, that at the name of Jesus every knee would bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue would confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. I love, love, love that passage.
Jennifer Rothschild: Amen. I think Philippians 2 is a great go-to chapter. But you must pause and tell us -- because I know you're memorizing a lot more Scripture. How do you memorize all those verses?
Michael O'Brien: It takes a lot of time.
Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. What do you do? Get practical.
Michael O'Brien: Well, a lot of times it's in the car when I have eight-hour drives and I'm listening to the Bible verses. So it's just -- you know, I'm working on Romans right now, but Ephesians and -- it takes hours and hours and hours and every day taking an hour out of your life to quote, because you don't want to lose it. I'm trying not to lose it. So I'm just spending a lot of time just meditating when I'm not home.
Jennifer Rothschild: That's good.
Michael O'Brien: Except in the morning, I do have a worship time too. But, yeah, it's just repetitive, keep on doing it, keep on doing it. Just set your mind on it. But I also read a lot of commentaries to connect with it, because I don't want to just memorize it, I want to understand it. And so it's just a -- it's definitely -- it takes a lot of time.
Laura Story: So how do you still find time for social media with all your Bible -- just kidding. This is, like, so convicting.
Jennifer Rothschild: Like, how do you get all your Facebook posts connected?
Laura Story: I know. How do you --
Jennifer Rothschild: Just kidding. All right.
Laura Story: That's why you're our hero.
Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Seriously, it's very inspiring.
Michael O'Brien: Do you -- okay, wow.
Jennifer Rothschild: Who's this?
Michael O'Brien: Oh, I got the word. Do you prefer waiting --
Laura Story: Writing?
Michael O'Brien: -- writing songs or books?
Jennifer Rothschild: To Laura. Do you prefer writing songs or writing books?
Laura Story: Well, I have a -- I have to tell you a secret. All of my songs and books are all about the same thing. So to me, it's all about God in his grace and his faithfulness meeting us in the brokenness of life. I shouldn't have told you that. No one's going to buy either my songs or my book now that I've just told you. There you go, that's the message. You can just skip all of it.
But to me, it's all the same thing. I was a songwriter before I wrote my first book. And the reason I wrote "When God Doesn't Fix It" is because people just continued to ask me, like, "Hey, I'd love to hear the story behind the songs you've written." And whenever I would share at an event like this, they're like, "I want to share that with so and so. Do you have a book?" And I just thought it was crazy thinking about me writing a book. But, yeah, the Lord often calls us into those places that we don't feel comfortable, just -- again, so he'll get all the glory.
Jennifer Rothschild: But you're a good storyteller. He has gifted you to tell a story.
Michael O'Brien: For sure.
Jennifer Rothschild: He really has, yeah.
Michael O'Brien: All right, Jennifer. We embrace the fear of God, but how does one, or myself included, not allow fear to overshadow your walk and relationship with your Father?
Jennifer Rothschild: Someone last night mentioned having the fear of the Lord. I think it was you, Michael. And the fear of the Lord is a truly high regard. But I think also we don't want to discount the fact that any time anyone encountered the Living God, he always said, "Do not be afraid," because there is a sense of fear that can come.
But I think when we think of fear of God as it's stated in Proverbs, we're talking about having this high regard and respect for the great holiness and otherness of God. And so I think what that's saying is, then, how does that not overshadow my relationship of seeing God as my Father? My -- this is my thoughts, and these thoughts are not -- this is not a dead-end street right here. I'm still in process. But I think when we really get to know the character of God and we can respect and regard highly his holiness, when you really know his whole character, then you also begin to recognize his love, that that character is love. And there's no fear in love. And so I even think -- you know, I happen to have been blessed with an earthly dad. And I highly respected him. I did not want to disobey or hurt him or embarrass him. But I also was completely comfortable in his love. I had no fear to come to him, even if I had blown it, because I really knew he loved me.
So I think we don't experience our own wholeness -- like the whole fear thing, balancing it, we don't experience our wholeness in that area unless we accept the wholeness of God. And so the wholeness of God is 100% holy and highly regarded and 100% love and completely accessible. And I think if we can ask God for the grace to experience fully the love of God, then we don't risk being afraid to treat him -- to feel safe with him as our Father.
Michael O'Brien: Well said.
Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Any more cosmetic questions?
Michael O'Brien: Down to two final questions. So this is to everyone. So what happens when you continue to forgive and then consequently continue to be hurt and taken advantage of?
Jennifer Rothschild: Go ahead. You think it's good, you answer it.
Laura Story: Oh, that's good. I think some of it is understanding what forgiveness is and what forgiveness isn't. I think you can forgive someone without restoring the relationship. Is that fair to say?
Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I think so too.
Laura Story: Because some of -- yeah. I'm going to let you take it from here, Jennifer.
Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, gosh. Okay, my turn. Okay. Because -- this is like a game of telephone. Because forgiveness is our choice, and it affects our relationship with ourself and God, and it may not, sadly, impact the relationship with the person we're forgiving. And so there may not be restoration of relationship without repentance and mutual forgiveness. Yet at the same time, I do think that it is okay -- I have to do this in my own mind. There's one human I don't have a relationship with anymore because that human is unsafe. And I have forgiven that human 70 times 7 times 7 times 7,000 times 70 times 7. And I'll do it again tomorrow, because my flesh is strong in that area because that human's behavior was unjust. And so it's very hard. So I have to keep forgiving 70 times 7, but I will never have relationship with that person. And so I think that's kind of how we have to do it. Now, let's just say this. Let's say you're in a family relationship with that person. Like, maybe you wear their wedding band. You cannot dismiss yourself from that unless there are biblical reasons or safety reasons. Right?
And let me just say this. We're three people up here doing our best in life, trusting the Lord, reading the Word. But if you're in a situation where you are having to constantly forgive, because it's a close family relationship, and you need to learn how to set boundaries and you need to figure out restoration, you need to go to a biblical counselor, because we're not them. And God will help you with that. And you deserve that, so -- yeah, get some real help, because we're not it.
Michael O'Brien: Yeah.
Laura Story: Unless it's skin care.
Jennifer Rothschild: Unless --
Laura Story: Or hemorrhoids apparently.
Jennifer Rothschild: Unless you have a saggy chin, I am your girl.
Michael O'Brien: I was looking at this question because -- you know, if somebody obviously is having to forgive somebody, and then they're consequently having to continue -- or being hurt and taken advantage of --
Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, see, that's a --
Michael O'Brien: -- the levels that we're talking about -- you know, there are levels of being taken advantage of. There's -- actually, you could be being hurt physically, which you kind of talked about a little bit. And that's a running away from --
Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, get out.
Michael O'Brien: -- no matter what.
Jennifer Rothschild: Right.
Michael O'Brien: Then there's the kind of thing where you possibly, because you're a people pleaser, are just saying yes and yes and yes, and they're taking advantage of you, and you just need to say no. And then there's the other one which is basically, hey, you -- I just -- see, there's that 50 thing. It just -- just those two. Just those two.
Laura Story: I got it. I got it. I got it.
I had someone tell me once -- I was frustrated that someone kept on stepping on my toes. And the person who I was complaining about this to said, "Maybe you should move your toes."
Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.
Laura Story: I realized, yes, I am continuing to get -- this was a family member. I kept on putting myself out there in such a vulnerable way that I had to learn how to love this person without giving them the ability to crush me emotionally every time we interacted. And so that's -- you know, those are things you don't necessarily -- you know, preachers aren't preaching on a whole lot.
Jennifer Rothschild: Right.
Laura Story: But, yeah, the whole boundaries -- figuring out what does it mean to truly love someone, especially a family member, but without giving them that power over you.
Jennifer Rothschild: Right.
Michael O'Brien: And that gave me the time to finally come up with that thing I was talking about.
Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, good. So you have your third thing?
Michael O'Brien: Which is basically we don't do things unto man, we do things unto God.
Jennifer Rothschild: For Christ's sake.
Michael O'Brien: So if we keep our mind on, hey, we're not looking for something from somebody, we're doing it unto the Lord, a lot of times you won't get hurt. But then sometimes you will.
Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that was worth waiting for that third thing. That was good.
K.C. Wright: That was a great way to end about forgiveness, because forgiveness is a great way to start every single day. And by the way, it's not David Thomas Roth. I looked it up. It's Peter Thomas Roth. Okay? So obviously you have Van Halen now on your mind.
Jennifer Rothschild: I know. What is my problem?
Okay. But I will have a link to the skin tightener on the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/252. And we are also going to have the more important things, like a transcript of this great conversation, plus links to Michael's music and Laura's music and books.
K.C. Wright: Yeah. And, hey, we just want to remind you to leave a kind review. It's not about us, it's about reaching just one more for Jesus. And when you leave reviews, it expands our reach here at the 4:13 Podcast.
And, Jenn, if I could, I want to give a shoutout to Snickerdoodle Fezzie, or Snickerdoodle Feezie.
Jennifer Rothschild: That's her username?
K.C. Wright: Yes, that's her username.
Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, Snickerdoodle whatever that last part was.
K.C. Wright: Listen to this review she left. "I just love this podcast. It's so gentle, uplifting, and fun. It reminds me to ground my life in Jesus and helps lift my spirit each time I listen. I only wish it was longer. I'm always left wanting more at the end."
Jennifer Rothschild: Well, sweet.
K.C. Wright: Wow.
Jennifer Rothschild: Thank you, Snickerdoodle. We love that.
K.C. Wright: That is so kind. Thank you.
Jennifer Rothschild: If you're ever near us, girl, we are taking you to coffee.
K.C. Wright: Let's go.
Now, you get with your people and spill some beans together. Okay? We need each other, our friends. Until next week -- you knew this was coming, right? -- remember, whatever you face, however you feel in this moment, you can truly do all things through Christ who gives you supernatural strength. I can.
Jennifer Rothschild: I can.
Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.
Jennifer Rothschild: That was sweet of Snickerdoodle. I wonder if she liked Van Halen.
K.C. Wright: I bet.
Jennifer Rothschild: Jump.
K.C. Wright: Yeah.
Jennifer Rothschild: That's the only song I actually knew.
K.C. Wright: That's right.
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