Spill the Beans LIVE with Lysa TerKeurst at Fresh Grounded Faith Jackson, MS [Episode 261]

Spill Beans Fresh Grounded Faith Jackson Lysa TerKeurst Michael O'Brien

This Spill the Beans is coming to you LIVE from Fresh Grounded Faith in Jackson, Mississippi with Lysa TerKeurst and Michael O’Brien. We’re sitting around the bistro table answering some really good questions from the audience including…

How do I forgive myself when I’ve really messed up?
How can I help a friend who’s going through a divorce?
How should I respond when someone I love has set up a boundary between us?
How do I know if it’s time to tell my story, especially if it might hurt someone?

See what I mean? They’re such good questions!

Plus, I was asked about my blindness, including how I speak to a crowd without using any notes and what I imagine my life would be like if I weren’t blind.

Interesting, right? Well, my honest answer to that last question might surprise you.

We’re talking about the stuff that matters and throwing in a few other things just for fun. So get ready to think, laugh, and be encouraged.

Pull up a chair at the bistro, and let’s spill some beans.

Meet Lysa

Lysa TerKeurst is a New York Times best-selling author of more than 25 books. Her most recent books include Good Boundaries and Goodbyes, Forgiving What You Can’t Forget, and It’s Not Supposed to Be This Way. She’s the president and chief visionary officer of Proverbs 31 Ministries and writes from her family’s farm table in North Carolina.

Meet Michael

Michael O’Brien spent years as the lead singer for Newsong and has been an important part of Fresh Grounded Faith events for over a decade. He’s had several number one hits and has produced six CDs including his most recent project release, Crown Him. He lives with his wife, Heidi, on a farm with their fainting goats in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Listen to the podcast using the player above, or read the transcript below. Then check out the links below for more helpful resources.]

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Queen Lucy’s Preferences

For all my 4:13ers who’d like to read the instructions I left for KC when he cared for my diva dog, Lucy, here you go…

Hey KC!

I thought I would give you a heads-up about my diva dog since I won’t be here when you pick up her royal hiney.

I will have all her stuff in a laundry basket in the laundry room. Val will pick up Lucy from the groomer around noonish, but you do have my house key, so you are welcome to come when you want.

Here’s what you need to know so you will understand her whiney ways:

She is used to a full food bowl—yes, a buffet. And if it isn’t full, she will stand before it and whine. She drinks more than she eats, and again, the water needs to be full for her to know it’s there.

Well, at least I want to believe she can’t see it. Maybe she is just that spoiled?!

She gets all the snacks she wants. She eats all the standard people foods. I am an enabling dog mom, so feel free to indulge her. Or you can put her in military school if you want—up to you.

She loves cheese—string cheese. But with that snack, I give her a third of one only once or twice a day. I will put some in the laundry basket.

By the way, I may leave her food bowls out since she may need them before you get her. Just check and grab them too if they aren’t in the basket.

She usually sleeps in her bed, so don’t let her sleep on yours or El’s. That is not a habit I want to break! And after what Brennen did on your white bed, you probably wouldn’t invite her up anyway! But, don’t be surprised if she finds another snuggly place to sleep.

She goes out two to three times a day. Once in the morning, sometimes in the afternoon, and then before bedtime. At my house, she will come to me or go to the front door and whine like she’s about to die! That’s one way to know she really needs to go! It’s rather demanding of her, but she is usually serious. Gotta give her kudos for good communication!

Her pee word is “Busy Busy.” That means when you take her out, you say, “Busy, Busy!” She knows that means, “This is not play time, sister! Pee now—it’s cold out here.”

What else?

Oh, I’m including PuppyPads in her basket because I put one under her bed just in case she wets the bed. It has happened twice—I mean, like, in over 5 years it has happened only twice, usually because of a bad dream. So, praying she doesn’t do it at your house, but that’s why the PuppyPad stays under her bed.

She sleeps a ton, sleeps late, and is hard to wake, so don’t think she’s dead if she’s slow to rouse! It’s normal for her. She is a lady of leisure when it comes to sleep!

She’s an old girl who can’t see, hear, or smell—and her hips hurt! Oh my, I can relate! Kidding.

If you have any issues at all, and I mean ANY, you call me! I can work out something. I mean it, KC! If you discover it’s too much with Brennen, be honest and I can find a Plan B.

Lastly, I get home on Sunday evening. So, you can drop off the queen at my house anytime that afternoon that’s convenient for you! She will be fine by herself as long as she has food and water. And, have Alexa play the 4:13! Lucy is a big fan, and that way, we get more downloads! Ha!

Love you, my brother! Thanks for your help!


Episode Transcript

4:13 Podcast: Spill the Beans LIVE with Lysa TerKeurst at Fresh Grounded Faith Jackson, MS [Episode 261]

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, this is Jennifer. I want you to meet somebody. She's my precious girl that I sponsor through Compassion International. She's a little girl from Ecuador, who has no dad, but she has a Heavenly Father who is meeting her every need.

If you're like me, you can feel overwhelmed with all the needs of the world. Covid-19 has affected all of us, but it has devastated those who already live in poverty. You know, we can't do everything, but we can do one thing, and that's what Compassion International allows us to do. It's a one-on-one relationship with a child who needs you, and it releases children from poverty in Jesus' name. So go to 413podcast.com/Compassion to meet my precious girl from Ecuador. And while you're there, I invite you, I challenge you, and I encourage you to sponsor a child along with me. That's 413 podcast.com/Compassion. And now it's time for some practical encouragement and some biblical wisdom on The 4:13.

Hey, 413'ers, this Spill the Beans is live from Jackson, Mississippi with Lysa TerKeurst, and we were just sitting around the bistro table answering some really good questions. Lots of how-to's like how to forgive yourself, how to help a friend going through a divorce, how to set healthy boundaries, and how to know it's time to tell your story, especially if it might hurt someone. Hmm. See what I mean? So pull up your chair and let's spill some beans.

K.C. Wright: Welcome, welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you and I up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hello, our friends. We're so glad you're here with us. We're going to have a great conversation today spilling the beans from Jackson, Mississippi. That's from a Fresh Grounded Faith event. But before we spill those beans, we're going to have to spill our own beans. So if you're new to us, I am Jennifer. My whole goal is to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living the "I Can" life. And that was K.C. Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy and also my dog co-parent. You co-parented Lucy with me.

K.C. Wright: I did.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So here's what we got to share with you guys. Remember a few episodes ago we told you that K.C. ended up adopting Lucy. She was so happy. In fact, before we give you an update on the Lucy saga, let me just let you hear when K.C., who thought he was only keeping the dog for a month, first got Lucy. You're going to love this exchange between the two of them.


K.C.: Lucy, are you excited to see Eliana?

Lucy: (Making whiney dog sounds.)

K.C.: Do you want to see Eliana? You miss Eliana?

Lucy: (Making whiney dog sounds.)

K.C.: You can't wait to see Ellie? You can't wait to see Eliana? Eliana loves you so much, Lucy. Yes.

Lucy: (Making whiney dog sounds.)

K.C.: You have something to say? Say it. Say it.

Lucy: (Making whiney dog sounds.)

K.C.: Ooh.

Lucy: (Making whiney dog sounds.)

K.C.: I know, you'll see Ellie soon. Ellie's going to take care of you for a whole month. A whole month. We got lots of treats.

Lucy: (Making whiney dog sounds.)


Jennifer Rothschild: You were clearly prepared to spoil the girl. Okay.

K.C. Wright: We spoiled the queen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, obviously.

K.C. Wright: I'll tell you what, I would love to post the email that you sent to me in preparation for the queen to live in our home.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, we probably should do that.

K.C. Wright: Because, I mean, listen, this dog was royalty and it was an honor to have her. yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, okay. So on the Show Notes, we will post that email, K.C. Okay, so you'll need to forward it to me so I can stick it on the Show Notes.

K.C. Wright: I'll do it.

Jennifer Rothschild: But I want you guys to hear one more. Okay. So when I told you that K.C. and Ellie were spoiling Lucille, Queen Lucy --

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- just listen to this at Vintage Coffee.


Ellie: Come on.

K.C.: Jennifer gave us strict instructions to spoil her, and we go next level. We just went to a vintage coffee shop and bought her string cheese, because we love our baby Lucy. Uh-huh. We promised to only give her one a day. And we haven't been doing this every day, but Lucy Baby -- Lucy Baby needs a treat, like the rest of us. This is her new year. You know, we drink wine in the new year. This is her happy new year cheese. There you go. And this is why Lucy loves Eliana more than me. She follows Eliana around.

Ellie: Ow.

K.C.: But as you can see, your dog is well on the Planet Earth.


K.C. Wright: Well, here's the thing. I've learned this from you, J R. Friends don't let friends drink bad coffee. So I have an addiction to our local vintage coffee truck that's by my house. And what do they sell there? String cheese.

Jennifer Rothschild: So she gets the fanciest string cheese ever.

K.C. Wright: That's right. We would get our coffees in the morning and, of course, we would bring Lucy home a nice string cheese.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, all she got when she lived with me was Walmart string cheese.

All right. So you see Lucy has had the best life ever. So a few weeks ago, I was at a conference -- well, not a few weeks. Probably last week I was at a conference, and there was this Q&A time right before I spoke. And this dear lady, who listens to The 4:13, asks me: "I have a question. How's Lucy? How's it going with K.C.?" And I said, "Well, that's interesting you should ask, because I need to share with you something, so don't feel bad for asking." So we're going to share it with everybody.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right. So Lucy had her best life ever, didn't she?

K.C. Wright: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Rothschild: She was so happy, like, three or four months.

K.C. Wright: Oh, yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And then things started going a little south.

K.C. Wright: Yeah. I mean, we noticed that she was losing some weight and she wasn't able to, I don't know, make it outside fast enough. And I'm telling you, this girl, she was queen. She was potty-trained, she was our angel baby, we had a routine with her. But, man, that last month, we saw her becoming not what we, you know, welcomed in the home.

Jennifer Rothschild: She wasn't herself.

K.C. Wright: No, she wasn't herself.

Jennifer Rothschild: And it was a lot of stress. Poor, K.C. I get this email from him saying, I love you, I love Lucy, and then it's this emotional series of bullet points of just all the -- she's pooped on the carpet, I've replaced the rug twice. Anyway, it was terrible. I'm like --

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: He said, "We've got to find someone else to adopt her."

K.C. Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: So you kept her for a few days for me just to get my act together.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And then I prayed that whole time, Lord, give me wisdom what to do. 'Cause I was afraid, based on what you'd said, that, you know, she might need to...

K.C. Wright: Well, she was an old girl.

Jennifer Rothschild: She was 14. Oh, no, she was 15.

K.C. Wright: We were believing God for a long life for her.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

K.C. Wright: And here's the deal. Ellie -- my 12-year-old, Ellie, fell in love with Lucy. Well, she was already in love with her when she lived here. But animals are our family at our house.

Jennifer Rothschild: They are.

K.C. Wright: I mean, I have an Australian Labradoodle and a rabbit named Leo. So, I mean, if I didn't live in a neighborhood, and I lived on a farm, we'd probably be like Noah's Ark.

Jennifer Rothschild: You probably would. Well, I will say this. When you brought her home -- because I hadn't seen her in a while -- it was very obvious that she was not long for this world. And, oh, you guys who've ever had to do this with an animal who you love and you're trying to make that hard decision, it became very clear. I knew when I saw her that she just needed to be relieved of her situation. And I prayed that Phil would feel the same way. Because we had already talked about it, and I was like, Lord, please affirm with his opinion. And sure enough, when he saw her, he said, "Oh."

So here's what I did, though, K.C. I just -- you guys may know this, but there are services that are offered where a vet comes to your home.

K.C. Wright: I didn't know that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. This one here where we live is called Peaceful Crossings. I cannot speak highly enough of it. This vet was dear and warm and kind and loving. And, you know, it was still just a very hard decision, but she affirmed it was the right decision to make.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And anyway, I had her laying -- Lucy, not the vet. I had Lucy laying on my lap. And she even said, "Let's make her more comfortable." She put this fluffy pillow under her. And then she did this, K.C. She got a little dish and she filled it with that squirty cheese. And Lucy, who had no energy prior to that, like, went crazy sucking up that cheese while she gave her some shots. Anyway, it was the sweetest, most literally peaceful crossing, you know.

So, yeah, K.C. and I have decided -- this is not theological, it's just emotional -- all dogs do go to heaven. They do --

K.C. Wright: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- because Lucy's there.

K.C. Wright: And cats go straight to hell, where they came from.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, some of the 413'ers --

K.C. Wright: I'm just kidding.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- they just got offended.

K.C. Wright: I'm just kidding.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know K.C.'s just being funny.

K.C. Wright: I'm just joking.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. But anyway, it was sweet.

K.C. Wright: We got to laugh.

Jennifer Rothschild: We've got to laugh. But you know what that vet did also? She made a little mold of her paw print and gave it to us.

K.C. Wright: What?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. It's precious.

K.C. Wright: That's beautiful.

Jennifer Rothschild: So it was a -- y'all know who have done this, it is a hard thing. But now K.C. and I, we have co-parented Lucy. She has gone to the next doggy world and we miss her, but it was...

K.C. Wright: And Jennifer, you know, you had warned me that this might even happen on my watch.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: You know, you had it prepared because of her age.

Jennifer Rothschild: She's 15.

K.C. Wright: And she had --

Jennifer Rothschild: Shih Tzus don't live for forever.

K.C. Wright: That's right. But anyway, it was just so sad, y'all. Because when I picked up Ellie from school, every single day she gets in the car, it's the same thing. "How's Brennan? How's Lucy? How's Leo?" Okay, this is my daughter, the animal lover. And so I had to tell her that Lucy moved to heaven and received her golden tail.

Jennifer Rothschild: She did.

K.C. Wright: And I believe that we'll see Lucy again. She was a good girl.

Jennifer Rothschild: She was a good girl.

K.C. Wright: I miss scratching her belly and her little ear scratches and -- she's so cute. And she got along with Brennan well and it was an honor hosting her. I didn't know that we were like a Hospice.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. You were.

K.C. Wright: I didn't know that. Because I had planned to keep her forever until she moved to heaven. I thought we'd have her for a couple more years.

Jennifer Rothschild: I did too, quite honestly.

K.C. Wright: But then I had to email you and say we've got issues. Something's going on. And then the vet confirmed it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. It was the hard right thing to do. But you were so good with her. Oh, my gosh. Lucy, who I thought was just tired, she moves in with K.C. and she, like, comes back to life and she's, like, got a crush on K.C.

K.C. Wright: I got to tell you, though. My forever stamp of a memory is now implanted in my mind. When I dropped her back off here, how she walked away from me in this final prance. And she looked back and did one last prance, and it was like, you know what? I knew if I pooped enough in your house, you'd bring me back home. It was one more I gotcha.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know what? I did not tell you this, but just for the record.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: She had been home maybe an hour and she had diarrhea in our house too.

K.C. Wright: Yeah, see?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I know. So I felt so bad for you.

K.C. Wright: And that was not normal.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

K.C. Wright: So that's why we had to get the vet.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, she was not well.

K.C. Wright: No, that was not normal.

Jennifer Rothschild: But anyway -- so I think she's somewhere with the Apostle Paul right now begging him for string cheese. I can hear it now. Anyway...

All right. So that has nothing to do with our conversation.

K.C. Wright: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: But when friends spill the beans, you get it all.

K.C. Wright: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: So this that you're about to hear was when we were in Jackson, Mississippi. But I will tell you guys -- heads up -- I'm about to be in Plant City, Florida, for a Fresh Grounded Faith. Annie F. Downs is going to be there, and it's September 22nd and 23rd. So we'll have a link to it on the Show Notes, or you can go to freshgroundedfaith.com and find out how to get tickets. So if you're anywhere close by, please come. It's going to be so good. Fresh Grounded Faith is just always meaningful and fun. And, in fact, at this one that you're about to hear in Jackson, Michael O'Brien was there also. He was leading worship. And actually, his will be the first voice that you'll hear when we go there live.

So K.C., let's introduce Michael and Lysa.

K.C. Wright: Yes. You get to hear Michael all the time when we have a Spill the Beans, so you already know and love him. But I'll give a quick intro here. Michael O'Brien was the former lead singer of NewSong. I used to play NewSong on the radio for years.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

K.C. Wright: He's an incredible musician, singer, songwriter, and worship leader, and he's married to his beautiful wife, Heidi.

And we know you also know Lysa, but I'll still give an official intro for her. Lysa TerKeurst is President of Proverbs 31 Ministries and the best-selling author of over 20 books. She's a mom, podcaster, and she lives in beautiful North Carolina now.

So let's spill the beans. These are my favorite podcasts, by the way. I love Spill the Bean podcasts. So here we go.

Michael O'Brien: All right. Jennifer, do you think you would be doing Bible studies and conferences if you hadn't become blind?

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I don't know what I don't know. I can assume, based on what I know of myself, my -- before I lost my sight, my goal was art. And I probably did have potential there. But I will also say this. I have a very strong will, and maybe a defiant streak and a high independence streak, which under the submission of Christ have served me well with blindness. But blindness became one of the ways God used it. It was kind of as a bridling effect for me, that all those things that could have become great liabilities actually were used to serve. So I'm not sure that I would be doing what I'm doing, because I could have just become so intensely independent and full of myself that I may have short-circuited a greater plan, and maybe God's mercy was in the form of blindness. I don't know. I don't know. But I don't know what I don't know, and so I trust God's sovereignty that this was his plan and his purpose.

Michael O'Brien: I've always said that Jennifer sees things way more clearly than some of my sighted friends.

Okay. How do we support -- Lysa, how do we support our Christian friends going through divorce?

Lysa TerKeurst: Yeah. Well, I alluded to it in my last session, that a divorce is really the death of a marriage. And that's really what I call my divorce, the death of my marriage. And so, you know, how you support a friend in grief, when they've lost someone, is really how you should support them when they experience the death of a marriage.

I think a couple things. One is it's not ever helpful to try to figure out why the divorce happened. And I think sometimes people want to, like, process that with a friend to try to help them figure out. It's really not going to be helpful unless they bring it up and they want to process it.

The other thing that I would say is pray that that friend -- first of all, I would say pray more words over that friend than words you speak to that friend, because prayer is really that important. But the other thing is pray that they can find some friends who are walking the same road that they are. I have three friends that are -- they have tragically walked through pretty much the same thing as me and -- you know, I'm a little ahead of them, but we all get together and we are our support system. I think one hard thing is when you go through a divorce, there's these little moments that happen that are just -- they catch you off guard and they're just overwhelming. For example, when I went to the doctor and I had to put on my form -- it says, "Married," "Divorced," "Single." And I was like, "Ugh." So, you know, I had to circle "Divorced." And then it says, "Emergency Contact." And I don't know why, but that just about sent me over the edge. And I just sat in the doctor's office and I thought, I don't have my person anymore.

And so these three friends became my people. We track each other. We all have started going on dates. I won't give any information about that. But we are a tremendous support system. We check in before the date, we check in during the date. We have threatened to come and spy, like, be in the restaurant to rescue. But it's so helpful to have that. So if you are a friend who has not been through a divorce, do pray for some friends in your friend's life that have walked through that.

And the other thing is, you know, when someone loses someone to a death, you do get casseroles, you do get help. People know to practically support you. And I would say take your friend a casserole. You don't even have to have a conversation. Just ring the doorbell, Here, here's some toilet paper -- I know you'll need that -- and some paper towels and a casserole, and I love you. And you would be surprised how much that practical help goes a long way.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that. That's good.

Michael O'Brien: That's good stuff.

So -- this is a tough one. I destroyed my marriage. Had an affair two years ago that lasted for several months. My husband says he has forgiven me, but I can feel the resentment and I know he doesn't look at me the way he once did. How do you find grace and forgiveness for yourself when you have hit the self-destruct button on your marriage and you're left with pieces of what once was?

Jennifer Rothschild: Whoever wrote this question, we really do feel your heartbreak on that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the heartbreak. There is grace and there is forgiveness. And sometimes -- this is just a thought. Sometimes we assign to others what we're really feeling ourselves. So perhaps if you are really struggling with self-loathing or a lack of forgiveness, it could be that you are assigning that to your spouse. Perhaps he really legitimately has forgiven you, and you are so -- it's so difficult for you to forgive yourself that you're assigning that same resentment or lack of forgiveness to him. Maybe. It's just a thought.

But I do know this. I've never had that situation, and I can only imagine -- I've done other things in my marriage that I have felt so guilty about and I wish I could erase. And when we can't erase something, it's so hard to sit with something, because this forgive and forget is a bunch of crock. There's only one perfect forgetter, and it's God, and he has washed that sin away. So it might be the 70 times 7 forgiveness thing that you have to do every day for yourself. And then try to believe that what God said is true and what your husband said is true, unless your husband says it is no longer true. But if he says it's true, it would honor him best for you to believe it's true and live like it.

Lysa TerKeurst: One thing I'll add that my counselor said -- that was really good, Jennifer, thank you -- for every rip, there needs to be a repair. And I like that, because I think as you become aware of maybe something that has been ripped in your relationship, it's good to pray and ask God, like, how do I repair this little rip? I may not be able to on the macro level fix everything today, but could I tweak this? Could I do a repair right here? Could I say something kind here? Could I give him some reassurance right here?

The best thing that -- when my ex-husband and I were in a season of what I thought was going to be reconciliation, some of the best advice that he was given is that when I had questions -- so he's the one that had the affair, and so I'm the one now with the trust issues. So when I would have questions, the best thing for him to do would be to say, Of course you have that question, of course you feel that way, of course you want to look at my phone, instead of getting defensive. Because if he got defensive, that would tell me that something was up again. But if he was really humble and kind about it, that would say he's still in that soft-hearted place.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's good.

Michael O'Brien: Well, y'all don't know my story fully, but there were breaches in our marriage. And to be -- I'm kind of in this lady's place right here. Or I was for quite a long time. And I had expectations. I wanted things to happen quicker, forgiveness. I knew that God had forgiven me, because I really believed that I had a godly sorrow, that it wasn't, hey, I just got caught doing something. However, my spouse, my wife, it was taking time to build the trust back up. And, yeah, there were some really difficult conversations and difficult statements made, one being, "Are you in Christ?" And at first, I wanted to be offended, but then I understood.

So there's just got to be a lot of understanding, patience, a building back of trust, opportunities to build that trust back -- what Lysa just spoke about -- and just a tenderness and just understanding that when you sin against somebody that you love, it's devastating. It's deep. It's not, oh, you know, hey, give it a week and she should be all right, or give it a week and he'll be all right. There is years. It took me years to build that trust back up. And I can tell you that we are, by the Grace of God -- if we're going to boast, we boast in the Lord.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Michael O'Brien: It's only by his grace that we are still together. And she had every right to leave. I mean, it's tough for me to say that because, you know, you're admitting to -- and y'all don't know all the details, but there's no justification of it. When you fail somebody that you love, you've failed them. But first and foremost, as David said, "I've sinned against you and you alone, God." And then there's the connection of the people that you've sinned against, that you have to rebuild that trust, and it takes time. It just takes time, so...

Jennifer Rothschild: Good.

Lysa TerKeurst: My counselor also said -- first of all, thank you, Michael, for sharing that. I know that you just blessed a lot of people to have the ability to hear a tender man's voice. So thank you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, yes.

Lysa TerKeurst: My counselor said trust is built time plus believable behavior. So it is going to take time and it is going to take believable behavior.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah. That's so good.

All right, Jennifer. How do you do a public teaching session without notes? Do you have prompts in your ear or is it memorized? You always sound so fresh and speak from your heart. How do you keep it all straight?

Jennifer Rothschild: I don't have anything in my ear telling me anything. But I spend a lot of time visualizing what I'm going to speak about. I do memorize Scripture. But I visualize my message in my mind. I have my main points that I'm going to make. I laughed when you said you couldn't remember the word "ladder," Michael, earlier, because I do create a ladder in my mind. And underneath the first rung of the ladder is how I'm going to introduce. And I'll use pictures if there's pictures I can use. First rung of the ladder will always be my first point, and I usually put the Scripture next to that in my mind's eye.

So when I am sharing, often, if you really watch me, when I'm getting ready to transition up the rung of the ladder, I will literally lift my eyes up, like I'm looking up to see what's next. And so I don't memorize verbatim because I also want to just be able to know the audience and trust the fluidity of the Holy Spirit's leadership, but I have my main things that I know I'm going to hit. And in between the rungs of the ladder, it may vary a little bit.

But, yeah, that's how I do it. It's just -- it does take a little bit of discipline, but it is possible for everybody. You don't have to be blind to be able to do it, I promise.

Michael O'Brien: All right, Lysa. My adult daughter has set boundaries with me and, number one, I'm heartbroken. And number two, she won't communicate with me why or what I've done. What do I do?

Lysa TerKeurst: That's really tough. And I've had that situation in my life where someone I love very much set a boundary, which basically meant that they were shutting me out. And that's not a boundary.

You see, a boundary -- what a boundary really is, a boundary is an effective communication tool. And the communication tool of a boundary is -- remember, we put a boundary on ourself. And the communication tool for the boundary is for you to be able to establish what you will and will not accept, what you can and cannot give, and what is and is not acceptable. It's really that simple. I mean, it's very hard to do, but it boils down to it's a communication tool. And when you shut the communication off before attempted conversations have been had to establish smaller boundaries -- you know, we don't want to take leaps to, like, access zero. So when that happens, that's really, really hard. And it's usually an indication that there's a tremendous amount of hurt.

And so if this was my daughter, I'm not going to give her a lesson or try to school her on healthy versus unhealthy boundaries. I'm not going to do that. But as appropriate, if she would give me a little tiny window, I would just pour grace and love and understanding. And one of the best things to say to someone who's so hurt that they've shut you out is, "Help me understand and I promise I will listen."

So I pray that you do have just somehow a little sliver, a little opening, a little something. And I think just ask God for that. And if it's not there now, don't feel like -- you know, this is one day, it's not forever. And so this is a part of your story, but it doesn't have to be the whole of your story. So I would ask God for a sliver, just the tiniest little bit, and enter that place in with, "Help me understand, you know, and I promise I will listen."

Jennifer Rothschild: Good. Good advice.

Michael O'Brien: Two more here. I'm a pastor's wife and was a pastor's daughter. Protecting my family is very important to me. How do you know when it's safe and important to share your testimony if it could ruin your loved one's life?

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, that's how you know. If it's going to ruin someone's life, then no. Here's what I mean by that. I just interviewed Beth Moore on my podcast, and she just came out with her memoir. And she talked to me about the -- knowing it was okay to write it now, the timing. And she disclosed a lot about her own past, which if she had shared earlier would have ruined someone. She shared some things about her husband, with his complete blessing; whereas in the past if she had shared, it would have ruined him.

So there may be a time when it is appropriate, you know, because of maturity or seasons, but there may be a time it's never appropriate. And I guess what I want to say to the sisters in Christ, we don't have to tell everybody everything for Jesus to get glory. We just don't. And there are times when you can be honest without being thorough, and that's totally legit. You know, sometimes we think only the big drama stories are the ones that are effective for Jesus. No. Your authentic well-lived story with discretion is also very effective for Jesus. So if you think it's going to ruin somebody's life, then that's your red flag that it, yes, will ruin someone's life, so it's not time. That's my thoughts.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, that's good.

Lysa TerKeurst: Thank you, Jennifer.

I would also say I knew when it was okay for me to share just some context of what I was walking through when I was more eager to share the transferable wisdom that I gained in the situation and --

Jennifer Rothschild: Not just the story.

Lysa TerKeurst: -- and not just the story. And I've -- I mean, people know what I've been through, but there's no details. And the main reason is because there's a big difference between privacy and secrecy. Secrecy -- like, I'm not keeping secrets from my audience by not sharing the details, because secrecy is for the purpose of hiding something so bad behavior can continue. That's not what I'm doing.

Privacy is withholding details for the sake of healing. And I want my family to be able to heal, I want my ex-husband to be able to heal, and so I provide the bare minimum context. But the bulk of my books, the bulk of my speaking, it's not details. Details are like sugar. It's not really going to nourish anybody's soul.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, no.

Michael O'Brien: That's all good. I don't need to add anything. I -- yeah.

So let's just go to the last question. What's the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to you?

Jennifer Rothschild: Finally we're lightening up around here. Mine, eighth grade. I was just beginning to shave my legs. And I have very thick hair. On my legs also. And so we were driving from Miami to North Carolina, and I decide for those three days I'm not going to shave my legs. Well, by the time I get to North Carolina, it's very Sasquatch.

And so we got to the camp that we were going to a little late, so my brothers and I head straight up the mountain to recreation. And they had split us up into different groups. And I had never met these teenagers before. And so they were playing this game called People Passer, and all of the students -- there were like 40 in our group. And so 20 stand on one side, and 20 stand on the other, and they're fingertip to fingertip, you know, because they're going to pass a person. And whichever team could pass their person the fastest was the winner.

Well, I happened to be tiny at the time, and so I lay on my back and everybody's passing me along, with my little short shorts in 1978 and my hairy legs, and every student is making a comment, "Ouch. Don't you ever shave your legs? Owe. This is so gross." It was horrible. I had to spend the whole week with them. It was awful. So that definitely has been my most embarrassing -- like, it impacted me so deeply, I never -- I shave my legs every day, hair or not.

All right, Michael, finish us up.

Michael O'Brien: It was a place called The Rusty Bucket. South Carolina. Small event, outside, inside. Very hot, summer. I head down there, park my car in an alley, go get a sound check. The guy brought me in, was very excited that I was there, and he gave me a T-shirt that says, you know, "I Sang At The Rusty Bucket," or whatever. He said, "Do you mind wearing this?" I'm like, "Sure." I mean, nobody was around except the sound guy, and so I took the shirt off, put my shirt on. And I realized -- you know, being a -- I'm a married man, and so I want to make sure I matched and -- I wouldn't want my wife to be upset that I didn't match. And so my pants did not match the shirt, so I was like, okay, well, I'm going to go into the alley -- and there's no bathroom in the area -- and I was just going to do a quick change. That was it.

So I go into the alley, I set everything up. My van door's open, and the alley's over here. I do the final check. I look around, nobody's there. My pants are there. I pull my pants down, I grab my pants, I pull -- and I look over, and right in that moment a 16-year-old girl, her mother, and her grandmother all turned and was walking up on me. And really did that thing that they do when you're like, "Oh, oh, oh," like that, and pretended like they didn't see. And it was the wife of the guy who brought me in. They were bringing me lunch. And I had to sit in a room with all three of them and have lunch while the 16-year-old never made eye contact. Not once. She never looked at me.

Jennifer Rothschild: She had seen enough. Sorry. I love you, brother.

All right, the beans have officially been spilled. Thank these guys.

K.C. Wright: I love it when we just get to talk about the stuff that matters. That is what Spill the Beans is. And it's always so good. It's always so life giving and, what I love, practical.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Right on. I agree.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So that means you need to find somebody, our friends, who needs a casserole. Okay? It soothes and ministers, no matter what situation a person's in. Okay?

By the way, you can find Lysa's books and Michael's music on the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/261.

K.C. Wright: So many times when I listen to the podcast, J.R. or a guest will drop a golden nugget. It's a word that I need in that time. And I love that we have the complete transcript at 413podcast.com/261. You'll find the transcript there so you can read all the wisdom you just heard.

All right, our friends, this one is a big ol' rap. So this week, you find somebody you can spill the beans with. All right? We need each other. And here's truth. We are better together.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

K.C. Wright: And remember, no matter what you face or how you feel, you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

K.C. Wright: I miss Lucy.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

K.C. Wright: Thank you for the honor of allowing us to have your queen diva in our homes and hearts.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you treated her like the queen she was, that's for sure.

K.C. Wright: I did pray for you because that was your family dog.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

K.C. Wright: And she moved to heaven. But it was time.

Jennifer Rothschild: It was.

K.C. Wright: It was time.


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